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Re: How sharp should an EDC knife be?
Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 10:01 pm
by bearfacedkiller
Does dull even exist or is it just the absence of sharpness. :confused: Like the way darkness doesn’t exist but is rather just the absense of light or cold not existing but rather it just being the absense of thermal energy.
I think I need to go on a walkabout and think about this one. :D
Re: How sharp should an EDC knife be?
Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 10:36 pm
by MichaelScott
The problem is that sharpness is a property of a thing, not the thing itself. The opposite property would be not-sharp. But it seems to me that the property of sharpness, like velocity, is meaningless without reference to some process. A “sharp” edge is only sharp when applied (force) to a material substance. Like a Porsche, it is only fast when moving.
Re: How sharp should an EDC knife be?
Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 11:44 pm
by jackh
Bearfacedkiller and MichaelScott, you guys have been drinking too much or not enough. lol I don't know. :)
The mention of a straight razor was a bad example as a few have said. It is a completely different type of tool with a different use. Me bad, me sorry. :)
So, let's take two Delica knives with VG-10. Sharpen one at 15 degrees per side to a super razor edge that will whittle a hair, push cut toilet paper, etc. Sharpen the other so it will shave arm hair with one pass or maybe two. Both would be considered very sharp knives to most people and both would be very usable.
Which edge would be considered "dull" quicker? What I'm thinking is with a super sharp edge apex as the steel breaks off would the edge be left duller than an edge that hadn't been sharpened quite that sharp but still to a very usable sharpness? Or would there be any amount of difference to worry about?
I don't plan on doing any testing on this question. Just wondering if anyone else has. :)
Re: How sharp should an EDC knife be?
Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 12:26 am
by Ruudr
Evil D wrote: ↑Sun Jul 08, 2018 5:58 pm
Combination of blade grind, edge thickness, steel, and intended use. But, generally I'd say sharp enough to push cut newsprint or phone book paper is sharp enough for me.
What Evel D says!
Re: How sharp should an EDC knife be?
Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 6:15 am
by Woodpuppy
Uh...
There is no spoon.
Re: How sharp should an EDC knife be?
Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 6:30 am
by anagarika
Michael Christy said “... how far it is from dull”. So the sharper it is (burr free apexed edge) the better, IMO.
Re: How sharp should an EDC knife be?
Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 6:32 am
by Bloke
Re: How sharp should an EDC knife be?
Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 6:45 am
by dsvirsky
jackh wrote: ↑Sun Jul 08, 2018 11:44 pm
I don't plan on doing any testing on this question. Just wondering if anyone else has. :)
IIRC, Cliff Stamp did and the sharper knife stayed sharp longer.
Re: How sharp should an EDC knife be?
Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 7:32 am
by Evil D
bearfacedkiller wrote: ↑Sun Jul 08, 2018 10:01 pm
Does dull even exist or is it just the absence of sharpness. :confused: Like the way darkness doesn’t exist but is rather just the absense of light or cold not existing but rather it just being the absense of thermal energy.
I think I need to go on a walkabout and think about this one. :D
Man the other thread about what is sharp has me thinking that dull really is just a word to describe something that is less sharp than we prefer it. Dull is a description of varying levels of sharpness and it has everything to do with what is being cut.
Re: How sharp should an EDC knife be?
Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 7:48 am
by dj moonbat
It should be as sharp as you have the time and skill to make it.
Re: How sharp should an EDC knife be?
Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 8:22 am
by Cycletroll
Vivi wrote: ↑Sun Jul 08, 2018 7:24 pm
Sharper edges last longer than duller edges, period. Implying otherwise, well, you might as well say the same car will go further on half a tank of gas :rolleyes:
I keep some stones on my dresser. If my EDC won't at least scrape arm hair, it gets touched up. It only takes 30-60 seconds since I never let my EDC dull past that point. ~20 swipes on the sharpmaker whites and my Pacific Salt is popping hairs. With how quick and easy it is I see no reason to let it get so dull I'm sawing through things.
Amen
Re: How sharp should an EDC knife be?
Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 8:45 am
by Pelagic
If push cutting newspaper isn't enough for you, you're definitely an edge snob lol. Not that that's a bad thing.
Re: How sharp should an EDC knife be?
Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 9:01 am
by wrdwrght
How sharp?
Sharp enough to cut what is knife-appropriate that you’re likely to encounter in your day.
Might as well start the day with better than a working edge for your particular steel.
But must it be hair-splitting sharp? I think not.
Re: How sharp should an EDC knife be?
Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 9:18 am
by MichaelScott
Evil D wrote: ↑Mon Jul 09, 2018 7:32 am
bearfacedkiller wrote: ↑Sun Jul 08, 2018 10:01 pm
Does dull even exist or is it just the absence of sharpness. :confused: Like the way darkness doesn’t exist but is rather just the absense of light or cold not existing but rather it just being the absense of thermal energy.
I think I need to go on a walkabout and think about this one. :D
Man the other thread about what is sharp has me thinking that dull really is just a word to describe something that is less sharp than we prefer it. Dull is a description of varying levels of sharpness and it has everything to do with what is being cut.
Yes. Exactly. Terms like “sharp” and “dull” are only meaningful when applied to a process (like penetration, separation of material, etc.). Without action they are meaningless. Let’s say you created a thin steel apex that was 0.001 microns wide. Unless that apex actually does something to something else, it is merely a thin steel apex. It isn’t sharp or dull. It just sits there. Once it was used to cut various things then we’d have something to discuss and it would be about cutting relative to “sharpness”.
I think the discussion would more fruitfully apply to analyzing the cutting properties of different materials, shapes and apex, because that incorporates action not stasis
Re: How sharp should an EDC knife be?
Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 10:06 am
by ThePeacent
your EDC knife should be sharp enough so you want that one to Carry Every Day, and not another one instead :D
Re: How sharp should an EDC knife be?
Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 3:28 pm
by Bodog
jackh wrote: ↑Sun Jul 08, 2018 11:44 pm
Bearfacedkiller and MichaelScott, you guys have been drinking too much or not enough. lol I don't know. :)
The mention of a straight razor was a bad example as a few have said. It is a completely different type of tool with a different use. Me bad, me sorry. :)
So, let's take two Delica knives with VG-10. Sharpen one at 15 degrees per side to a super razor edge that will whittle a hair, push cut toilet paper, etc. Sharpen the other so it will shave arm hair with one pass or maybe two. Both would be considered very sharp knives to most people and both would be very usable.
Which edge would be considered "dull" quicker? What I'm thinking is with a super sharp edge apex as the steel breaks off would the edge be left duller than an edge that hadn't been sharpened quite that sharp but still to a very usable sharpness? Or would there be any amount of difference to worry about?
I don't plan on doing any testing on this question. Just wondering if anyone else has. :)
I think the tests performed showed that getting a refined edge and then taking one or two really soft strokes perpendicular to a fine sharpening stone to remove just the most fragile part of the apex resulted in edges that last the longest, though they never start as being the sharpest.
Don't know if that answers your question and yeah, it was Cliff Stamp who did the testing. I could be wrong about the results, his results were sometimes less than firm.
Re: How sharp should an EDC knife be?
Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 3:39 pm
by Daveho
It should be sharp enough be used as a mirror and impress people on the internet, Sharp looking is much more important than being actually sharp.
Re: How sharp should an EDC knife be?
Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 3:51 pm
by bearfacedkiller
C’mon, polished edges are useful. You never know when you might need to clean some food out of your teeth or pluck a rogue nose hair.
Re: How sharp should an EDC knife be?
Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 3:59 pm
by jackh
Bodog wrote: ↑Mon Jul 09, 2018 3:28 pm
jackh wrote: ↑Sun Jul 08, 2018 11:44 pm
Bearfacedkiller and MichaelScott, you guys have been drinking too much or not enough. lol I don't know. :)
The mention of a straight razor was a bad example as a few have said. It is a completely different type of tool with a different use. Me bad, me sorry. :)
So, let's take two Delica knives with VG-10. Sharpen one at 15 degrees per side to a super razor edge that will whittle a hair, push cut toilet paper, etc. Sharpen the other so it will shave arm hair with one pass or maybe two. Both would be considered very sharp knives to most people and both would be very usable.
Which edge would be considered "dull" quicker? What I'm thinking is with a super sharp edge apex as the steel breaks off would the edge be left duller than an edge that hadn't been sharpened quite that sharp but still to a very usable sharpness? Or would there be any amount of difference to worry about?
I don't plan on doing any testing on this question. Just wondering if anyone else has. :)
I think the tests performed showed that getting a refined edge and then taking one or two really soft strokes perpendicular to a fine sharpening stone to remove just the most fragile part of the apex resulted in edges that last the longest, though they never start as being the sharpest.
Don't know if that answers your question and yeah, it was Cliff Stamp who did the testing. I could be wrong about the results, his results were sometimes less than firm.
The perpendicular strokes!!! I remember that in a video from the guy who invented the Edge Pro. He used an example of when sharpening steak knives that would be used on hard plates (glass, ceramic, etc.). Steak knives in a restaurant for example. He called it "taking the edge off". By doing that to the curved part of the edge to the tip that touches the plate and leaving the flat section with the sharper edge produces a great edge for cutting on hard surfaces. That sounds like a great plan for knives used this way.
But based on most posts I'm guessing the EDC knife should be left with a sharper edge on the entire edge. But I think I'll do that (take the edge off) on one of my EDC's and see how it lasts.
Great input. Thank you.
Re: How sharp should an EDC knife be?
Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 4:00 pm
by Daveho
bearfacedkiller wrote: ↑Mon Jul 09, 2018 3:51 pm
C’mon, polished edges are useful. You never know when you might need to clean some food out of your teeth or pluck a rogue nose hair.
True that- plus if you polish your less than stainless blades that oxidation has nowhere to start and it’s just banished to the depths once more.
