Spyderco Forums

StuntZombie wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 04, 2018 4:01 am

What Deacon said. There's nothing that says dealers can't offer a discount through an unadvertised "sale". Basically a dealer can sell at any price they want, but they can't advertise any prices below that 40% off threshold.

The Deacon wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 04, 2018 3:11 am

I'm not a lawyer, but I'm fairly sure the decisions you refer to were about industry wide price fixing, where multiple sellers of similar products (like music CD's) collude and agree not to undersell one another. I think MAP is more like an end run around the 1975 repeal of the old Fair Trade Laws, which allowed manufacturers to require dealers to sell their products at full retail price. MAP, only limits advertised price, so it's not quite the same. You, as a buyer, can always call a dealer and attempt to negotiate a better price.

I doubt Spyderco, or any of the other manufacturers using MAP, would be doing so if it was illegal. There were companies, the pen manufacturer Mont Blanc comes to mind, requiring their dealers to follow MAP years before Spyderco adopted it. You'd think some dealer, somewhere, would have challenged it by now if it was illegal.

Nate wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 04, 2018 4:23 am

Hopefully this will help some, I'm paraphrasing myself from a while back...

MAP and price fixing are actually quite different concepts. MAP is legal and involves the manufacturer's right to impose resale price restrictions vertically along their distribution chain (wholesalers, dealers).

Price fixing is illegal. It's a horizontal arrangement among competitors to decrease competition. This would be like Spyderco, Benchmade, and ZT all colluding to set prices at an artificially high level or otherwise conspiring to reduce competition in some way.

FCM415 wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 04, 2018 4:27 am

Thanks Nate. Any leads on dealers that are not horizontally aligned with MAP pricing :D

Nate wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 04, 2018 4:23 am

*eta, the best "deals" anymore are on discontinued models and when Ebay has 10%, 15%, or 20% off coupons that can be applied to Spydercos without the dealers violating MAP.

Also, inflation is a beach and it continually creeps and squeezes everywhere. It's not limited to Spyderco and it's not really their fault, though they may need to look for new ways to innovate, carve out new niches, lower costs and corresponding msrps, etc... to stay competitive.

FCM415 wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 04, 2018 4:42 am

Yep inflation is normal...

FCM415 wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 04, 2018 4:20 am

Anyone with such luck...Please PM me or share with the forum of a brick and mortar dealer we can call and order from that can price match pre online MAP prices or better.

Nate wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 04, 2018 5:06 am

FCM415 wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 04, 2018 4:42 am

Yep inflation is normal...

Sadly I guess it is normal, and intentional, but I wouldn't say it's natural. Probably shouldn't go too far down the monetary and economic rabbit hole here, but this excerpt from Keynes (in 1919! :eek:) is a good read:

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/commandingheig ... ation.html

Nate wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 04, 2018 5:06 am

FCM415 wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 04, 2018 4:42 am

Yep inflation is normal...

Sadly I guess it is normal, and intentional, but I wouldn't say it's natural. Probably shouldn't go too far down the monetary and economic rabbit hole here, but this excerpt from Keynes (in 1919! :eek:) is a good read:

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/commandingheig ... ation.html

ChrisinHove wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 04, 2018 6:15 am

A good read, yes, but must be read in context of the hyperinflation of post WW1 Germany. Most modern western economies rely on modest growth and therefore inflation, and so it is engineered by the governments and central banks. If one thinks we can live without it, just look at the effects “stagflation” had upon Japan over the last decades.

The effects of excessive inflation in some market areas are certainly very pernicious, though. If you look at housing, the prospect of earning more through house price growth/inflation than by actually working fuelled the 2008 credit crunch. The consequence of high housing prices has created a generational schism (here) between those who own (and have profitted enormously) and those who may never be able to afford to own.

Bodog wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 04, 2018 10:59 am

An authorized dealer is really nothing more than a representative of a manufacturer.

Say you sold vacuum cleaners door to door. You have several vacuums to sell. Would the company be OK with you as their representative lowering the prices of the vacuums to undercut other salemen to drum up more sales for yourself? I'd think not. Now conversely, if you were able to sell them for more than what the company said, would they really mind? Probably not.

Point is that authorized dealers aren't resellers. Resellers can set the price at whatever level they want. Authorized dealers, if they want to maintain their status as an authorized dealer, have to set their prices in accordance with whoever is authorizing them to sell the product in an offical capacity. In this case it's spyderco. They're working with people who sell their products on spyderco's behalf. All of the logistical mechanisms that make it easier for us as consumers to make returns, choose which specific knife we want, know we're buying actual spyderco knives and not knockoffs, etc. are there and protect us as consumers in exchange for being an authorized distributor of spyderco products. Since they're distributors of spyderco's products, do you not believe spyderco can demand of them to not undercut one another to protect the entire distribution chain? I'd think they absolutely could. If a company doesn't agree with spyderco's prices I'm sure they could cancel their contract with spyderco and stop being an authorized distributor of spyderco's products. Nothing is "being fixed" here. I personally like competition, tbh, but i can understand a company protecting their other distributors from sharks who can and do loss-lead because they're so massive that other sales cover the overhead. It's how you block monopolies. And I'm happy that spyderco is defending normal people from companies like amazon and walmart.

Look at what happens to a lot of small companies who become dependent on selling in walmart. Walmart comes in like the vultures they are and demand the manufacturers to lower the costs. Doesn't matter if it strains or even breaks the company manufacturing something. Walmart will demand it and you will comply because your company is dependent on selling in walmart stores. Spyderco i think made the right decision to protect itself from companies that would absolutely bully them into selling at a loss. They're keeping their options open and not becoming too reliant on amazon and walmart and other mega corporations.

I'd like to buy a good spyderco knife at the lowest possible cost to myself. Who wouldn't? But not at the long term cost of shutting spyderco down. I tend to like spyderco as a company.

ABX2011 wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 04, 2018 1:14 pm

Except Amazon does sell for under MAP. A quick search and I found the Vallotton, Lil' Subhilt and Sliverax listed below MAP. I'm sure there are many more.