Spyderco Forums

Hi,

I like knives but I have a problem: I am from Germany. Our laws pretty much prohibit us to carry a one hand opening locking knife. I already have a selection of non-locking Spydercos (Squeak, Urban, UKPK, PITS) but I'd really like to have a two hand opening locking knife, e.g. a Delica or a Police. Are there any?




Kind Regards,

NicoColt1911

I hear you, I am in the same boat/country...
Theoretically you could somehow seal the hole and thus make it two handed, but as soon as the blade can be shaken out you are in trouble (as you probably know).

As for your original question, I am not aware of any. Also some type of locks would be really hard to realize in a legally safe way as two hand opening.

My only thought was also sealing the hole, but even then you risk it coming loose or being punched out. Plus virtually any model could still be Spydie-dropped open since the spine of the blade stands proud of the handles.

I just tried drop-opening a Baby Horn by pinching the blade in front of the hole and had it open and locked with no problem. Not sure if that's something they would check, but it may be a risk.

perhaps a Mantra 2 or Positron with the flipper tab ground off?

curlyhairedboy wrote:perhaps a Mantra 2 or Positron with the flipper tab ground off?

Yeah been considering those as well, but as long as you can grab onto the blade and flick them open you are at risk. That pretty much only leaves back locks or locks with super strong detent which goes against the current flavor.

I don't have any experience with those two flippers, and the blades do sit very low in the handles, but even if they can't be easily Spydie-dropped, I don't know if the detents are strong enough to keep them from being shaken open. With a firm downward shake, I can deploy my Sliverax like a gravity knife. Not sure if that's true of the Positron or Mantra 2.

Why not carry a OHO NON-locking Spyderco like for example the UKPK instead?

Then you dont need to block holes or grind down flipper tabs.

If I understand correctly, the UKPK is legal to EDC in Germany?

Thanks everybody so far.

vilePossum wrote:

curlyhairedboy wrote:perhaps a Mantra 2 or Positron with the flipper tab ground off?

Yeah been considering those as well, but as long as you can grab onto the blade and flick them open you are at risk. That pretty much only leaves back locks or locks with super strong detent which goes against the current flavor.

These flippers come with ball bearings, right? So you'd have to change these for washers well most probably.

SpyderScout wrote:Why not carry a OHO NON-locking Spyderco like for example the UKPK instead?

Then you dont need to block holes or grind down flipper tabs.

If I understand correctly, the UKPK is legal to EDC in Germany?

Yes it is.

Sadly though you might still run into trouble because cops don't know the law that well: Only one hand opening locking knives are forbidden, but the legal term for these knives in our lawbooks is "Einhandmesser" which translates to "one hand knife" and is a common term for all knives that you can open with one hand no matter if they have a lock or not. Thus a lot of cops use the common definition by mistake. Someone in a German forum even posted that that's the way it's thought to them. If things go bad you might have to fight for your right in court and even that might turn out bad since there is one judgement that deemed the Böker Griploc to be an Einhandmesser because of it's "eleborate mechanic" was "locked by the hand" and "doesn't close when used under normal use conditions". Now IMO this judgement is bullshit and also there is no Spyderco knife has an mechanic as advanced as the Griploc's (even the PITS "only" has a spring that can hook to the blade when you press it) but you never know. Two handed opening knives are much less of a hassle. You can show it to the cops and as long as it doesn't have a black blade or such there is pretty much nothing they can do.

For me that is an advantage. Furthermore I personally prefer big knives that lock and I don't mind two hand opening that much. So it's also a matter of personal preference of course. A two hand opening PM2 would be my dream knife from Spyderco. I will have to see if I can modify a PM2 to fit my needs.

Let's just fave it, the only knife you can sort of safely get away with in carrying is a SAK in Germany (and even they have one handed opening/locking versions). You can even get fined for carrying a Leatherman.
Personally I am about ready to get a custom or at least a custom blade for a locking two handed sak. But that is of course besides the point of the original post.

Funny enough it is legal to carry a ~4"blade length fixed blade in most places.

A big 2h opening locking folder with the other features of spyderco like full flat grind with good slicing ability would be awesome.

And yes, the ukpk is an option, but as stated above not without issues and sometimes one just wants the peace of mind of a lock.

Sounds like Germany and Canada need the same solution.

vilePossum wrote:Funny enough it is legal to carry a ~4"blade length fixed blade in most places.

It really is amazing to me how I've heard Canadians and Germans talk about giving up knife collecting altogether instead of carrying a small fixed blade. Like one handed folders are the only thing worth carrying and an Izula + Victorinox Camper is a worthless EDC combo...

Vivi wrote:

vilePossum wrote:Funny enough it is legal to carry a ~4"blade length fixed blade in most places.

It really is amazing to me how I've heard Canadians and Germans talk about giving up knife collecting altogether instead of carrying a small fixed blade. Like one handed folders are the only thing worth carrying and an Izula + Victorinox Camper is a worthless EDC combo...

Well I am carrying a cold Steel mini hunter and a victorinox Evo.
But this directly relates to the distributor thread.. When paying catalog prices for fixed blades as well... Well you start looking for other options.

Sounds like there is a nice business opportunity to manufacture a "hole filler", I am imagining a double sided thin metal screw (imagine a hearing cell battery), with a groove cut in for the other hand's thumbnail ...

ferider wrote:Sounds like there is a nice business opportunity to manufacture a "hole filler", I am imagining a double sided thin metal screw (imagine a hearing cell battery), with a groove cut in for the other hand's thumbnail ...

While not 100% legally safe I would be up for something like this, the devil is in the details though.
A German vendor is know for using some "liquid metal" filling and stuff like this to cover thumb stud holes.

BTW there were people in Germany getting arrested and fined for carrying a Chris reeve Mnandi.

NicoColt1911 wrote:Thanks everybody so far.

vilePossum wrote:

curlyhairedboy wrote:perhaps a Mantra 2 or Positron with the flipper tab ground off?

Yeah been considering those as well, but as long as you can grab onto the blade and flick them open you are at risk. That pretty much only leaves back locks or locks with super strong detent which goes against the current flavor.

These flippers come with ball bearings, right? So you'd have to change these for washers well most probably.

SpyderScout wrote:Why not carry a OHO NON-locking Spyderco like for example the UKPK instead?

Then you dont need to block holes or grind down flipper tabs.

If I understand correctly, the UKPK is legal to EDC in Germany?

Yes it is.

Sadly though you might still run into trouble because cops don't know the law that well: Only one hand opening locking knives are forbidden, but the legal term for these knives in our lawbooks is "Einhandmesser" which translates to "one hand knife" and is a common term for all knives that you can open with one hand no matter if they have a lock or not. Thus a lot of cops use the common definition by mistake. Someone in a German forum even posted that that's the way it's thought to them. If things go bad you might have to fight for your right in court and even that might turn out bad since there is one judgement that deemed the Böker Griploc to be an Einhandmesser because of it's "eleborate mechanic" was "locked by the hand" and "doesn't close when used under normal use conditions". Now IMO this judgement is bullshit and also there is no Spyderco knife has an mechanic as advanced as the Griploc's (even the PITS "only" has a spring that can hook to the blade when you press it) but you never know. Two handed opening knives are much less of a hassle. You can show it to the cops and as long as it doesn't have a black blade or such there is pretty much nothing they can do.

For me that is an advantage. Furthermore I personally prefer big knives that lock and I don't mind two hand opening that much. So it's also a matter of personal preference of course. A two hand opening PM2 would be my dream knife from Spyderco. I will have to see if I can modify a PM2 to fit my needs.

I see.

In that case a THO locking folder makes sense.

Thx for taking the time to elaborate.

vilePossum wrote:
And yes, the ukpk is an option, but as stated above not without issues and sometimes one just wants the peace of mind of a lock.

I agree - a lock on a folder can be nice.

Well, Sal has made knives for the UK and for Denmark - maybe Spyderco will make one for Germany.

Vivi wrote:

vilePossum wrote:Funny enough it is legal to carry a ~4"blade length fixed blade in most places.

It really is amazing to me how I've heard Canadians and Germans talk about giving up knife collecting altogether instead of carrying a small fixed blade. Like one handed folders are the only thing worth carrying and an Izula + Victorinox Camper is a worthless EDC combo...

My thoughts as well; plenty of small nifty fixed production (and custom) knives out there - Street Beat just to mention one.

The only Spydercos that are two handed opening are slipits. It sounds as though you are going to have to go to the traditional knife route. The good news is the Buck 110 is now available in S30V and G10. It is also available from Copperandclad with a light weight aluminum frame and S30V.

An Esee Izula fixed blade makes a good pocket knife, as I happen to know.


Copper and Clad Aluminum framed 110 with S30V blade.

I honestly didn't know that they also use premium steels and G10 so thank you for this information!
I doubt it will suit me though. Bucks are usually on the heavier side and as far as I know they also don't have clips. That's a problem with a lot of two hand opening knives. Most companies think that two hand opening has to go hand in hand with either slip joint and / or no clip.

Luckily there are still some good options for two handed opening, lock and clip:
Benchmade has the Summit Lake Series (great Knives!) and European manufacturers have good options too. Manly has the Peak that is available with both a opening hole (maybe shouldn't have mentioned this one here?) and a two hand opening style blade. Great knife for it's price but the clip is just utter trash. Then there is Böker. It's a German company with mostly Asian production and they have some knives that meet my criteria but I personally don't like them somehow. I cannot put my finger on it bus somehow they aren't appealing to me. I rarely sell knives but I ended up selling all knives from them.

My favorite carry knives are all from Lionsteel and Extrema Ratio. I love Extrema Ratio's BF-Line and have some knives from them. My EDC is a Lionsteel Big Daghetta though. A great knife! I own both the Titanium and the G10 version and mostly carry the G10. It has a removable opening disk, a deep carry clip, 3.7 inch D2 blade (not a big fan of D2 but it hasn't caused me any problems so far) and a cool locking mechanism called TOL (Tactical Operation Lock). TOL looks and works like an AXIS lock but doesn't lock the blade itself but the spring. Thus it doesn't allow you to open the knife by pressing it and flicking it open as an AXIS lock does. IMO it is as two hand opening as a knife possibly can be. It basically is a slip joint with lock. It's easier to open a nail nic Victorinox with one hand than this beast.

So there are good options, but Spyderco is still missed regardless.

Have you looked at the Spydk or Roadie?