Sliverax Mod round 2 / CQI suggestion

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Evil D
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Sliverax Mod round 2 / CQI suggestion

Postby Evil D » Mon Jan 22, 2018 2:52 pm

Thanks to Paul's generosity I found myself with a second Sliverax. I decided I'd see what I could do about the flipper tab hitting my finger when closing. Here's what I came up with..

Image
Image
Image


So, the basic issue is the placement of the lock cutout. It just needs moved back about 3/16in or so and you can close it no problem without hitting your finger. I know the grip tape looks like crap but that beveled lock tab makes getting traction a real pain (literally) and the grip tape makes it a lot easier for me to get enough pressure on to close, and it helps to add reference on where to put my finger so it's out of the way of the tab. The beveling is a really nice touch but it could stand to have some traction for your finger, maybe even some very fine jimping like the Military has on it's lock tab. While I had it apart I went ahead and polished the detent ball track a little, greased the bearings, and tweaked the lock bar a bit so the detent is stronger. It's now at least on par with my Yo 2's and flips fine by both light switch and button push method (though I can still wrist flick the blade open quite easily).

I'm still a little torn on which I prefer more, with or without the tab. The tab is certainly fun and I don't mind an additional deployment method, but that doesn't change the fact that this design is still quite good without it and I think the ergonomics are a tab better on your index finger without it. I do think it looks better with it though.




Up next I'm thinking about some hard (enough) use tests? There's some debate about whether the milled pivot has made it weak or not. I certainly don't want to break one, but I also would like to know what it's capable of and maybe put some of those fears to rest. Suggestions? I don't plan on batonning with it or spine whacking the heck out of it so lets keep it reasonable.
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BrianMcCord
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Re: Sliverax Mod round 2 / CQI suggestion

Postby BrianMcCord » Mon Jan 22, 2018 3:44 pm

Those two knives are different...was there already some CQI changes implemented?
-Brian


Son's Collection: H1 Rescue Manbug, Tenacious

Rescue 79mm Orange, Cat BD-1, Effecient, Pingo Orange FRN, T-Mag, Urban K390, Lil' Native, Sliverax, Para 3 S110V, Caly 3 HAP 40, R Nishijin, Mantra, Manix 2 LW S110V, Manix 2 Black, Delica 4 Black, PM2 Digi, PM2 Black, Yojimbo 2, Native 5 LW, Dragonfly 2, Military 204P, Wolfspyder, Techno, HAP 40 Ladybug, H1 Hawkbill Ladybug, Blue Persistence, Bradley 2, UKPK SE Gin-1


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Evil D
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Re: Sliverax Mod round 2 / CQI suggestion

Postby Evil D » Mon Jan 22, 2018 3:47 pm

BrianMcCord wrote:Those two knives are different...was there already some CQI changes implemented?
Nope, I ground out the hole on the first one in the pics.
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Re: Sliverax Mod round 2 / CQI suggestion

Postby BrianMcCord » Mon Jan 22, 2018 3:54 pm

I was looking at the cutout for the comp lock on the clip side. One has exposed liner, like mine. The other is covered partially by G10/CF
-Brian


Son's Collection: H1 Rescue Manbug, Tenacious

Rescue 79mm Orange, Cat BD-1, Effecient, Pingo Orange FRN, T-Mag, Urban K390, Lil' Native, Sliverax, Para 3 S110V, Caly 3 HAP 40, R Nishijin, Mantra, Manix 2 LW S110V, Manix 2 Black, Delica 4 Black, PM2 Digi, PM2 Black, Yojimbo 2, Native 5 LW, Dragonfly 2, Military 204P, Wolfspyder, Techno, HAP 40 Ladybug, H1 Hawkbill Ladybug, Blue Persistence, Bradley 2, UKPK SE Gin-1


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Re: Sliverax Mod round 2 / CQI suggestion

Postby BrianMcCord » Mon Jan 22, 2018 3:57 pm

Here is an image...
Attachments
image.jpeg
-Brian


Son's Collection: H1 Rescue Manbug, Tenacious

Rescue 79mm Orange, Cat BD-1, Effecient, Pingo Orange FRN, T-Mag, Urban K390, Lil' Native, Sliverax, Para 3 S110V, Caly 3 HAP 40, R Nishijin, Mantra, Manix 2 LW S110V, Manix 2 Black, Delica 4 Black, PM2 Digi, PM2 Black, Yojimbo 2, Native 5 LW, Dragonfly 2, Military 204P, Wolfspyder, Techno, HAP 40 Ladybug, H1 Hawkbill Ladybug, Blue Persistence, Bradley 2, UKPK SE Gin-1


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Re: Sliverax Mod round 2 / CQI suggestion

Postby Evil D » Mon Jan 22, 2018 4:53 pm

BrianMcCord wrote:Here is an image...
Right, that's the part I ground out. Are you saying yours is already like that???
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Re: Sliverax Mod round 2 / CQI suggestion

Postby BrianMcCord » Mon Jan 22, 2018 4:58 pm

Evil D wrote:
BrianMcCord wrote:Here is an image...
Right, that's the part I ground out. Are you saying yours is already like that???
My mistake...it looked factory cut. Good job EvilD!
-Brian


Son's Collection: H1 Rescue Manbug, Tenacious

Rescue 79mm Orange, Cat BD-1, Effecient, Pingo Orange FRN, T-Mag, Urban K390, Lil' Native, Sliverax, Para 3 S110V, Caly 3 HAP 40, R Nishijin, Mantra, Manix 2 LW S110V, Manix 2 Black, Delica 4 Black, PM2 Digi, PM2 Black, Yojimbo 2, Native 5 LW, Dragonfly 2, Military 204P, Wolfspyder, Techno, HAP 40 Ladybug, H1 Hawkbill Ladybug, Blue Persistence, Bradley 2, UKPK SE Gin-1


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Re: Sliverax Mod round 2 / CQI suggestion

Postby Liquid Cobra » Mon Jan 22, 2018 5:28 pm

The mod looks good but for me it’s unecessary. I can’t for the life of me make this thing pinch my finger. The flipper tab also never hits my finger when I close the knife. I wear XL size gloves. Maybe my hands are too big or I’ve perfected the opening/closing technique?
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Re: Sliverax Mod round 2 / CQI suggestion

Postby Evil D » Mon Jan 22, 2018 5:53 pm

Liquid Cobra wrote:The mod looks good but for me it’s unecessary. I can’t for the life of me make this thing pinch my finger. The flipper tab also never hits my finger when I close the knife. I wear XL size gloves. Maybe my hands are too big or I’ve perfected the opening/closing technique?
If I squished my finger all the way back I could miss the tab but it just didn't feel natural and I'd screw it up more often than not. I really don't get pinched by the lock though, sometimes my Yojimbo gets me though.
SHARPEN IT LIKE YOU LOVE IT, USE IT LIKE YOU HATE IT
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BrianMcCord
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Re: Sliverax Mod round 2 / CQI suggestion

Postby BrianMcCord » Mon Jan 22, 2018 7:32 pm

Evil D wrote:
Liquid Cobra wrote:The mod looks good but for me it’s unecessary. I can’t for the life of me make this thing pinch my finger. The flipper tab also never hits my finger when I close the knife. I wear XL size gloves. Maybe my hands are too big or I’ve perfected the opening/closing technique?
If I squished my finger all the way back I could miss the tab but it just didn't feel natural and I'd screw it up more often than not. I really don't get pinched by the lock though, sometimes my Yojimbo gets me though.
My Yojimbo gets me too, if I roll it out slow. I mentioned this when I first got it, and there were no others that could empathize. I'm glad I'm not the only one who has a bodyguard that hurts me :)
-Brian


Son's Collection: H1 Rescue Manbug, Tenacious

Rescue 79mm Orange, Cat BD-1, Effecient, Pingo Orange FRN, T-Mag, Urban K390, Lil' Native, Sliverax, Para 3 S110V, Caly 3 HAP 40, R Nishijin, Mantra, Manix 2 LW S110V, Manix 2 Black, Delica 4 Black, PM2 Digi, PM2 Black, Yojimbo 2, Native 5 LW, Dragonfly 2, Military 204P, Wolfspyder, Techno, HAP 40 Ladybug, H1 Hawkbill Ladybug, Blue Persistence, Bradley 2, UKPK SE Gin-1


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Evil D
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Re: Sliverax Mod round 2 / CQI suggestion

Postby Evil D » Mon Jan 22, 2018 7:38 pm

BrianMcCord wrote: My Yojimbo gets me too, if I roll it out slow. I mentioned this when I first got it, and there were no others that could empathize. I'm glad I'm not the only one who has a bodyguard that hurts me :)

I realized we're talking about two different types of pinching. The Yojimbo gets me in the palm sometimes, but the complaint I've seen about the Sliverax is it pinching your index finger while flipping. Same cause, different pinch point I guess. I'm not really a flipper fanatic but I do think the Yojimbo 2 would work extremely well with a flipper, the handle design would work even better with a tab/guard like the Sliverax has.
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Re: Sliverax Mod round 2 / CQI suggestion

Postby BrianMcCord » Mon Jan 22, 2018 10:10 pm

Evil D wrote:
BrianMcCord wrote: My Yojimbo gets me too, if I roll it out slow. I mentioned this when I first got it, and there were no others that could empathize. I'm glad I'm not the only one who has a bodyguard that hurts me :)

I realized we're talking about two different types of pinching. The Yojimbo gets me in the palm sometimes, but the complaint I've seen about the Sliverax is it pinching your index finger while flipping. Same cause, different pinch point I guess. I'm not really a flipper fanatic but I do think the Yojimbo 2 would work extremely well with a flipper, the handle design would work even better with a tab/guard like the Sliverax has.
This is an extremely interesting conversation that got me thinking about something that I didn't know that I was interested in... :cool:
-Brian


Son's Collection: H1 Rescue Manbug, Tenacious

Rescue 79mm Orange, Cat BD-1, Effecient, Pingo Orange FRN, T-Mag, Urban K390, Lil' Native, Sliverax, Para 3 S110V, Caly 3 HAP 40, R Nishijin, Mantra, Manix 2 LW S110V, Manix 2 Black, Delica 4 Black, PM2 Digi, PM2 Black, Yojimbo 2, Native 5 LW, Dragonfly 2, Military 204P, Wolfspyder, Techno, HAP 40 Ladybug, H1 Hawkbill Ladybug, Blue Persistence, Bradley 2, UKPK SE Gin-1


Looking for an Operation Iraqi Freedom and Operation Enduring Freedom Native. :spyder:

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Re: Sliverax Mod round 2 / CQI suggestion

Postby foofie » Mon Jan 22, 2018 11:22 pm

Evil D,

If I follow, you would like the option of retaining the flipper tab? But as it comes, the tab consistently bumps your index finger? And your solution is to enlarge the cut-out so you have more clearance for the tab? I know some people complained of pinching on deployment, but I think your issue is with closing?

I think as you move the cut-out further away from the lock, the amount of force needed to disengage goes up. This may be why the grip tape is even more important? One other solution, which I copied from the original mod thread, is to grind down the tab just a few millimeters - enough so the tab no longer enters the cut-out area. This retains the tab and retains the flipper-ability (still plenty of tab left). IIRC, the original idea had pictures not in the thread, but through a link.

I tried to capture it in these pics: You can see as the tab goes through an arc around the pivot, it does not enter the cut-out.
Image
Image

Hope I didn't totally miss the boat.

edit - after shaving down the tab, the blade closes every time since it no longer bumps my index finger.

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Evil D
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Re: Sliverax Mod round 2 / CQI suggestion

Postby Evil D » Tue Jan 23, 2018 6:28 am

foofie wrote:Evil D,
That's another possible solution. The grip tape is a whole other issue, I have it on my first Sliverax that I ground the tab off of. The issue there is how the tab is rounded, I don't really understand why but it seems like I have to use an extra amount of force to press the tab compared to other compression locks, and it seems to be a traction issue. When I put the tape on the first knife the issue was immediately fixed. Moving the cutout back does indeed reduce how much leverage you have on the lock bar, but it hasn't made much difference in how much force it takes to press, even with me tweaking the lock bar to increase detent strength (which also means increasing how much force it takes to unlock). We're talking about less than 1/4 inch further back, your finger is practically in the same place on the lock tab. My concern with making the tab smaller is compromising the flipping action. Some people are already complaining that they don't flip every time, seems like you would want as much leverage on the tab as possible. As far as pinching on opening goes, it seems like my finger naturally moves back into/on the cutout when I use the light switch method, and pressing straight into the tab I can't make myself get pinched.
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Re: Sliverax Mod round 2 / CQI suggestion

Postby p_atrick » Tue Jan 23, 2018 9:16 am

Love the mod. Looks great too. I'd be afraid to do something similar to any of my knives for fear of having it look/feel like crap. Well done.

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Re: Sliverax Mod round 2 / CQI suggestion

Postby paulwa » Sun Jan 28, 2018 8:44 am

Evil D wrote:Thanks to Paul's generosity I found myself with a second Sliverax. I decided I'd see what I could do about the flipper tab hitting my finger when closing. Here's what I came up with...
You just couldn’t leave well enough alone, could you D? ;)

But in all seriousness, tweaking the Sliverax a bit to eliminate the the tab pass through interference would definitely be worth a look as part of CQI. I haven’t had the opportunity to go through that process yet with the Spyderco team, but I’m looking forward to potentially getting that opportunity as it would likely be very educational. I think a slightly shorter flipper tab paired with an amped up detent to compensate for the bit of leverage lost would be a more cost effective refinement since all that can be done by blade-only modifications, but that’s just speculation on my part. Here’s to hoping the Sliverax sticks around long enough to make it to a CQI phase.

Cheers all,
- Paul

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Re: Sliverax Mod round 2 / CQI suggestion

Postby dj moonbat » Sun Jan 28, 2018 9:33 am

paulwa wrote:
Evil D wrote:Thanks to Paul's generosity I found myself with a second Sliverax. I decided I'd see what I could do about the flipper tab hitting my finger when closing. Here's what I came up with...
You just couldn’t leave well enough alone, could you D? ;)

But in all seriousness, tweaking the Sliverax a bit to eliminate the the tab pass through interference would definitely be worth a look as part of CQI. I haven’t had the opportunity to go through that process yet with the Spyderco team, but I’m looking forward to potentially getting that opportunity as it would likely be very educational. I think a slightly shorter flipper tab paired with an amped up detent to compensate for the bit of leverage lost would be a more cost effective refinement since all that can be done by blade-only modifications, but that’s just speculation on my part. Here’s to hoping the Sliverax sticks around long enough to make it to a CQI phase.

Cheers all,
- Paul
I'd say it's got a good shot. When I was out looking for micarta scales for my PM2, I noticed that the Sliverax is already a hit with the knife-pimping community. And no wonder: in a market niche jammed full of very similar designs, it's about as distinctive a flipper design as I've seen.

I'm hoping that you make a little brother for it, something along the lines of one of the sheepsfoot minis that were produced in the mod competition thread. I'm also hoping that one of the knife stores makes some gonzo version with some steroid super steel.

As far as the tab pass-through: now that Spyderco has finally bitten the bullet and made a comp lock with a button release, they should be integrating that in new comp lock models at every opportunity. Aside from getting your finger out of the way of the flip tab, having the lock release on the side of the knife that you can see just makes sense.

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Re: Sliverax Mod round 2 / CQI suggestion

Postby Evil D » Sun Jan 28, 2018 10:21 am

paulwa wrote:
Evil D wrote:Thanks to Paul's generosity I found myself with a second Sliverax. I decided I'd see what I could do about the flipper tab hitting my finger when closing. Here's what I came up with...
You just couldn’t leave well enough alone, could you D? ;)

But in all seriousness, tweaking the Sliverax a bit to eliminate the the tab pass through interference would definitely be worth a look as part of CQI. I haven’t had the opportunity to go through that process yet with the Spyderco team, but I’m looking forward to potentially getting that opportunity as it would likely be very educational. I think a slightly shorter flipper tab paired with an amped up detent to compensate for the bit of leverage lost would be a more cost effective refinement since all that can be done by blade-only modifications, but that’s just speculation on my part. Here’s to hoping the Sliverax sticks around long enough to make it to a CQI phase.

Cheers all,
- Paul
Yeah I think a stronger detent would overcome the loss of leverage from a shorter flipper tab. And, I think ergonomics would improve slightly from a shorter tab, because the ONLY hot spot on this entire knife in use is the flipper tab jamming into my index finger. On my tabless version that hot spot is completely gone and I can use the knife hard and for long periods without any fatigue. This would also keep the lock tab in a more user friendly location where you get more leverage on the tab. Make it so Number 2 :D
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Re: Sliverax Mod round 2 / CQI suggestion

Postby Canazes9 » Sun Jan 28, 2018 10:37 am

dj moonbat wrote:
As far as the tab pass-through: now that Spyderco has finally bitten the bullet and made a comp lock with a button release, they should be integrating that in new comp lock models at every opportunity. Aside from getting your finger out of the way of the flip tab, having the lock release on the side of the knife that you can see just makes sense.
Agree 100%!!!

David

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Re: Sliverax Mod round 2 / CQI suggestion

Postby foofie » Sun Jan 28, 2018 10:50 am

I shortened my flipper tab, but I have to say that my Sliverax still flips open easily and consistently. I have not noticed any loss of leverage. I also chamfered and contoured the tab a bit so it doesn't poke me in pocket - and it still flips open easily. This is with no change to the detent - so perhaps addressing both at the factory would make a perfect flipper/compression lock for just about everyone?

Here's to hoping for CQI.
with button lock ;)
and m4 or cts-204p :D


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