What's the appeal of deep carry?

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vivi
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What's the appeal of deep carry?

Postby vivi » Fri Nov 10, 2017 3:46 am

The way I see it, it makes it harder to get a knife out of my pocket. Often times I find deep carry after market clips have worse ergonomics as well.

What's so bad about having 1/2"-1" of knife handle sticking out of your pocket? I find it makes it easier to draw my knife than a deep carry clip. Especially when carrying IWB.
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FCM415
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Re: What's the appeal of deep carry?

Postby FCM415 » Fri Nov 10, 2017 4:02 am

Work places, locales such as very urban areas may prefer descrete carry.

Less knife protruding to scratch car paint or get caught in something.

Some might prefer a cleaner look, you know the opposite of Mr Gadgetman.

I personally have no preference but I do hate it when my clip hits my car paint.

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Re: What's the appeal of deep carry?

Postby hmr170 » Fri Nov 10, 2017 4:59 am

Pocket knife definition from Merriam-Webster:

"A knife that has one or more blades that fold into the handle and that can be carried in the pocket. First Known Use: 1676."

I'm not sure when or by whom it was decided that all pocket knives must be clipped to the pocket. You want deep carry, just put the thing in your pocket. No scratched paint. No frayed openings of pockets. No ripped pockets from catching your knife on something as you walk by it. Remove the clip and you no longer have any hot spots. Why would anyone need to clip a Dragonfly to themselves? I can see a few limited uses of clips such if you often find yourself being dangled upside down or use pants or shorts that don't have any pockets such as exercise wear.

I got rid of all my clips a while ago. The only knife that I ever lost over the side of a ship when I was in the merchant marine was a 1st gen Endura. The clip got caught on something and over the side she went. I'm sure the deployment argument will come up and I have to admit that it can sometimes take me almost 1.5-2.0 seconds to retrieve a knife from my pocket and open it. I'm sure if I could do it quicker, I could prevent terrorist attacks and other violent acts carried out by others.

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Re: What's the appeal of deep carry?

Postby Jazz » Fri Nov 10, 2017 5:09 am

Good question. You can still plainly see the clip in the pocket. Aftermarket deep carry clips are so very ugly too. I don't mind Spyderco's deeper carry ones, but it's way easier to get the knife out with a normal clip. The only thing I'd add is that the other extreme is bad too (Para 2).
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Re: What's the appeal of deep carry?

Postby Evil D » Fri Nov 10, 2017 5:33 am

I get it to a certain point but for example some people have complained about the Sliverax not carrying deep enough, when there's a teeny little nub left sticking out of your pocket. I understand it much more when it's a Military and you have an inch of the knife sticking out, but even then I've found that pulling the knife out is much easier and on the Military in particular I've found that the pivot stays cleaner and free from pocket lint so there are added benefits to that setup. I guess if I had to dress in more formal or business casual clothes I would be more concerned with my knife showing, but there is always a clip showing and anyone who knows anything about knives knows what a clip on a pocket means. Spyderco's wire clip is pretty great for this though, the way they shape their clips (even the hourglass clip) creates a dip where the clip bends down to contact the knife, which is perfect for putting your finger on to draw the knife. This way I just slip my thumb in my pocket and my index finger is on the clip and they draw just fine that way. Maybe my biggest problem with deep carry is when wearing gloves it isn't always as easy to get inside my pocket with my thumb.
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Re: What's the appeal of deep carry?

Postby zhyla » Fri Nov 10, 2017 5:54 am

Vivi wrote:The way I see it, it makes it harder to get a knife out of my pocket.
I've only owned one deep carry knife and it was so much more frustrating than fishing around in a pocket. I ended up just never using it and sold it.
Vivi wrote:What's so bad about having 1/2"-1" of knife handle sticking out of your pocket?
I suspect it was the concealed carry crowd that first got obsessed with deep carry. But I can see people that wear things like ties and shiny shoes the nub of knife sticking out could aesthetically bother them.
hmr170 wrote:I'm not sure when or by whom it was decided that all pocket knives must be clipped to the pocket.
I'm pretty sure it was a small company in Colorado around 1981 :)

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Re: What's the appeal of deep carry?

Postby The Deacon » Fri Nov 10, 2017 6:25 am

FCM415 wrote:Work places, locales such as very urban areas may prefer descrete carry.

Less knife protruding to scratch car paint or get caught in something.

Some might prefer a cleaner look, you know the opposite of Mr Gadgetman.

I personally have no preference but I do hate it when my clip hits my car paint.
I'd agree on all points except "Less knife protruding to scratch car paint or get caught in something". I will concede that, to some degree, a deep carry clip reduces the chance of dropping and damaging your knife, or losing it altogether, when it snags on something. However, I'm more inclined to think it's the clip, rather than the knife, that's the culprit, when it comes to damaging cars and furniture.

I'll admit that the entire concept of clipped carry in general, but especially in urban areas, baffles me to some extent. I have to wonder if any of you who carry that way would walk around with a $100 bill draped over the edge of your pocket.
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Re: What's the appeal of deep carry?

Postby bearfacedkiller » Fri Nov 10, 2017 7:14 am

I am not a deep carry fan. I will still carry knives that come with deep carry but aside from aesthetics I see no advantages and a few disadvantages. For a classy gents folder it makes some sense.

My main gripes are that they are more difficult to draw and that they tend to allow the knife to move around more. It is hard to explain but they behave more like a pendulum and with a standard clip there seems he be a certain balance to the mounting location that keeps the knife more vertical.

I assume that for many it is aesthetics, social concerns and just the desire to modify their knives. Aftermarket clips sure are popular with the instagram crowd. ;)

I find many of the aftermarket hourglass clips less attractive than the standard hourglass clips and I think that the stubby ones just look strange and can only speculate they they exacerbate the pendulum effect.
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Re: What's the appeal of deep carry?

Postby bearfacedkiller » Fri Nov 10, 2017 7:23 am

Paul, I agree. To me a deep carry clip seems just as capable of scratching a car or furniture as a standard clip. I don't see much of a difference there.

However, I do not fully recognize the threat of pickpockets. At a crowded event like a parade or fair I might unclip the knife and drop it in my pocket but otherwise it is not an issue for me. In a crowded place it is a valid concern but I doubt it is a valid concern for most people on a day to day basis.
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sal wrote:Knife afi's are pretty far out, steel junky's more so, but "edge junky's" are just nuts. :p
SpyderEdgeForever wrote: Also, do you think a kangaroo would eat a bowl of spagetti with sauce if someone offered it to them?

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Re: What's the appeal of deep carry?

Postby blueblur » Fri Nov 10, 2017 7:34 am

Before I knew about Spyderco knives I carried another brand that had a deep carry clip and one of the first things I noticed was the clip location. I convinced myself to try a PM2 after I noticed how much of the blade is in the pocket vs sticking out of the pocket. After realizing it really isn't much at all and I never came close to loosing a knife because it didn't have a deep carry clip I stopped worrying about it. I now feel a small part of the handle sticking out gives me something to purchase when removing from the pocket. I love both the hourglass clip and wire clip and the only knife I felt the need to try an aftermarket is the Para 3. I don't really consider that a deep carry clip because a small amount of the handle is still sticking out and I can get a good grasp on it but the bigger difference it made was allowing more room for my middle finger to move back when disengaging the lock. I have no issues with the factory clips and what Evil D explains above, about the dip giving your index finger a place to land, works great for me so I have no need to change anything. Other than tip up carry on the PM2 :)

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Re: What's the appeal of deep carry?

Postby anycal » Fri Nov 10, 2017 7:38 am

I used to buy deep carry clips for my larger knives, like PM2 and Military. I had a change of mind on those knives. Went back to stock clips. Easier to get out of pocket and better feel in hand than custom clips.

That said, I still prefer deep carry in some situations - work, public places. This is true for my <3" knives. Yes, you are not fooling knife people, but for large portion of population, out of sight - out of mind. Especially something like the wire clip.

And then there is the Para 3, which I would not get if all there was the stock clip.

No clip, not for me. Still carry a Case knife now and then, but moving around a lot, having somewhat loose clothing, having a knife move around in your pocket is uncomfortable. Also, defeats the concept of easy access to a tool when buried in your pocket.
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Re: What's the appeal of deep carry?

Postby elena86 » Fri Nov 10, 2017 7:42 am

bearfacedkiller wrote:I am not a deep carry fan. I will still carry knives that come with deep carry but aside from aesthetics I see no advantages and a few disadvantages. For a classy gents folder it makes some sense.

My main gripes are that they are more difficult to draw and that they tend to allow the knife to move around more. It is hard to explain but they behave more like a pendulum and with a standard clip there seems he be a certain balance to the mounting location that keeps the knife more vertical.

I assume that for many it is aesthetics, social concerns and just the desire to modify their knives. Aftermarket clips sure are popular with the instagram crowd. ;)

I find many of the aftermarket hourglass clips less attractive than the standard hourglass clips and I think that the stubby ones just look strange and can only speculate they they exacerbate the pendulum effect.
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Re: What's the appeal of deep carry?

Postby mad german » Fri Nov 10, 2017 8:15 am

I have deep carry clips on my knives that NEED them; Para 3 and Benchmade North Fork. My other knives, PM2s, do not need a deep carry clip IMHO. In fact, I prefer a bit of the PM2 sticking out of my pocket since it makes retrieving the knife easier.
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Re: What's the appeal of deep carry?

Postby Igi964 » Fri Nov 10, 2017 8:38 am

Personally I love deep carry pocket clips. Especially those from Casey Lynch.
My first experience with deep carry was Techno, back in 2014. I sold it few months later, but I can't stand knives sticking out of my pocket anymore. Usually carry RFP. I use Lynch clips more than 2 years. It's my favorite clip overall. Stonewashed finish is nice to touch, all edges are nicely finished.Overall shape with the round hole, fit nice together with Spydie hole:) Easy to get in and out, knives are safely hidden in pocket. Titanium is more flexible than steel, I like the tension of it. Not too strong, not too weak.Can't praise enough.

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Re: What's the appeal of deep carry?

Postby vivi » Fri Nov 10, 2017 8:46 am

FCM415 wrote:Work places, locales such as very urban areas may prefer descrete carry.

Less knife protruding to scratch car paint or get caught in something.

Some might prefer a cleaner look, you know the opposite of Mr Gadgetman.

I personally have no preference but I do hate it when my clip hits my car paint.
Haha, you brought back memories.

Image

I've EDC'd my various Military folders more than any other knife at work and it's never been an issue. If your knife complies with laws and company policy why would it matter if the handle is visible?

hmr170 wrote:Pocket knife definition from Merriam-Webster:

"A knife that has one or more blades that fold into the handle and that can be carried in the pocket. First Known Use: 1676."

I'm not sure when or by whom it was decided that all pocket knives must be clipped to the pocket. You want deep carry, just put the thing in your pocket. No scratched paint. No frayed openings of pockets. No ripped pockets from catching your knife on something as you walk by it. Remove the clip and you no longer have any hot spots. Why would anyone need to clip a Dragonfly to themselves? I can see a few limited uses of clips such if you often find yourself being dangled upside down or use pants or shorts that don't have any pockets such as exercise wear.

I got rid of all my clips a while ago. The only knife that I ever lost over the side of a ship when I was in the merchant marine was a 1st gen Endura. The clip got caught on something and over the side she went. I'm sure the deployment argument will come up and I have to admit that it can sometimes take me almost 1.5-2.0 seconds to retrieve a knife from my pocket and open it. I'm sure if I could do it quicker, I could prevent terrorist attacks and other violent acts carried out by others.

I'm with you. Sometimes I'll put a knife deep in my pocket, even if it has a clip. The first two years I carried Spyderco, I took the clip off every single one. I had no issues carrying my Military or C95 Manix clipless.

These days I appreciate the clip more. I have more things in my pockets than when I first got into knives...like car keys, a phone and a flashlight. Using clips helps me keep stuff organized and comfortable.

I also spend about half the year in running shorts. Some have pockets, some don't, but clipping a knife IWB is more comfortable either way.

Either way I agree with the dragonfly comment too...smaller the knife, less likely it is I'll keep the clip on. Been thinking about going clipless with my Tasman Salt actually.
Last edited by vivi on Fri Nov 10, 2017 8:59 am, edited 2 times in total.
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vivi
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Re: What's the appeal of deep carry?

Postby vivi » Fri Nov 10, 2017 8:56 am

Jazz wrote:Good question. You can still plainly see the clip in the pocket. Aftermarket deep carry clips are so very ugly too. I don't mind Spyderco's deeper carry ones, but it's way easier to get the knife out with a normal clip. The only thing I'd add is that the other extreme is bad too (Para 2).
That's what confuses me. I see plenty of people carrying pocket knives with deep carry clips that 100% hides the handle. I can still tell they're carrying a pocket knife just as easily as I could if the handle stuck out a bit. Those clips don't look like they'd belong on anything else, and you can usually see a slight outline printing.
Evil D wrote:Spyderco's wire clip is pretty great for this though, the way they shape their clips (even the hourglass clip) creates a dip where the clip bends down to contact the knife, which is perfect for putting your finger on to draw the knife. **This way I just slip my thumb in my pocket and my index finger is on the clip** and they draw just fine that way. Maybe my biggest problem with deep carry is when wearing gloves it isn't always as easy to get inside my pocket with my thumb.
Slight tangent but I think this explains something for me.

People complain a large tip-up knife, like a Police carried tip-up, is difficult to draw as quickly as tip down. I've never had that issue. When I draw my Police my ring or middle fingers middle joint goes to the dip in the clip, and my thumb on the scale next to my body. That's why I can draw these large knives without re-adjusting my grip I suppose.
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vivi
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Re: What's the appeal of deep carry?

Postby vivi » Fri Nov 10, 2017 9:03 am

The Deacon wrote:I'll admit that the entire concept of clipped carry in general, but especially in urban areas, baffles me to some extent. I have to wonder if any of you who carry that way would walk around with a $100 bill draped over the edge of your pocket.
Been carrying clipped knives for a decade and no one has ever tried to take one from me. If I'm in a big crowd and I'm worried about something like that I'll just clip whatever knives I have on my IWB, clip under my belt, shirt over top it all. Seems like a strange thing to be concerned about.

Good point on clips and car paint. Deep carry or not, it's still something you have to be mindful of. I get around the issue by not rubbing against cars :p
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Re: What's the appeal of deep carry?

Postby wrdwrght » Fri Nov 10, 2017 9:06 am

I have no answer. Spyderco's clips work just fine for me, but, then, I live a retired small-town semi-rural New England life. Raised eyebrows are few and far between. I have no need to be stealthy. But if I visit a city, especially if I find myself in a shoulder-to-shoulder crowd, I may put my larger EDC at the bottom of a pocket, if I remember...
Last edited by wrdwrght on Fri Nov 10, 2017 9:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

vivi
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Re: What's the appeal of deep carry?

Postby vivi » Fri Nov 10, 2017 9:07 am

bearfacedkiller wrote:I find many of the aftermarket hourglass clips less attractive than the standard hourglass clips and I think that the stubby ones just look strange and can only speculate they they exacerbate the pendulum effect.
Same. I could have the standard black hourglass clip on every knife I own and be happy.
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Re: What's the appeal of deep carry?

Postby vivi » Fri Nov 10, 2017 9:10 am

anycal wrote:That said, I still prefer deep carry in some situations - work, public places. This is true for my <3" knives. Yes, you are not fooling knife people, but for large portion of population, out of sight - out of mind.
I can't recall anyone ever noticing my clipped knives in a negative way. The only time someone has mentioned anything was when they wanted to admire it. Don't ever notice people glancing at my pockets or mentioning it. In fact every once in a while I'll hop in a grocery store or gas station with my Scrapyard Dogfather strapped to my belt. Still no looks, haha. Done it in multiple states too.

Haven't noticed any turned heads with my Ronin 2 on my belt either.

Years ago I used to concern myself with all of this stuff based on what I read online, but gradually I realized that, at least my life isn't like that. I have never had a negative reaction to carrying or using my knives, period.
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