wicked sharp, S30v vs S110v

[ZMW]

I have noticed my PM2 S30v does not keep its shaving sharp edge for long. (No burr, a nice clean hair popping edge to start - 30 degree reprofile with 40 degree microbevel - standard sharpmaker stuff). The working edge is not bad and it cuts for awhile. But man, it losses that shaving sharp edge quick. My VG-10 delica keeps its shaving sharp edge longer.

I want to upgrade to S110v. But, does it react similar to S30v, in that it will lose its wicked sharp edge quickly but hold a working edge forever? If yes - what are some fun steels that will hold a very sharp edge for a long time? ZDP? Maybe just jump into Maxamet? Stainless or not, I do not care - I want performance.

I am looking at Native's, Manix, millie's - maybe another delica if ZDP is the route.

Thoughts?

[425KRS]

S110V will hold it's edge for MUCH longer than S30V but it's going to be harder to sharpen. That's basically the generic response. Here is a nice review of a knife that uses the S110V steel (the military S110v): http://knifeinformer.com/spyderco-milit ... 0v-review/

[Evil D]

S110V will also tend to loose peek sharpness rather quickly, but the trade off is extreme working edge retention. Ultimately it depends on what you're doing. Personally I've found that all steels will settle into their "working edge" within the first few cuts depending on what you're cutting, so unless I have a knife that I've delegated to light use I will almost always opt for the longer working edge because even though it's a bummer to lose that hair popping edge, it's more of a bummer to lose all out sharpness and find yourself with a knife that takes excessive effort to cut or has gone totally blunt and won't cut at all.

[elena86]

Scuze my ignorance but...what's an "working edge" ? Does it shave arm hair ?

[Nate]

For me, "working edge" means it no longer shaves, but still easily slices paper.

[Evil D]

Scuze my ignorance but...what's an "working edge" ? Does it shave arm hair ?

It's all up for interpretation. All I mean is the edge is still sharp enough to use without major increase in effort. You can still carve wood, slice paper, etc but it isn't going to shave like a freshly sharpened edge.

[dj moonbat]

I never thought that the "working edge" that S30v settles into was enough for me. It'll stay paper-slicing sharp for a long while, but hair-shaving goes away pretty fast.

I took a leap of faith a few weeks back and got an S110v PM2, and the factory edge continues shaving hair after some fairly signficant cardboard cutting. It's definitely not weirdly sharp like it was out of the box, but it doesn't leave me dissatisfied the way that S30v would do after the same sort of workout regimen.

So I'd say, yes, it does something similar to what S30v does, but every stage of the edge's decline seems to be less severe. I'm a fan.

[elena86]

Scuze my ignorance but...what's an "working edge" ? Does it shave arm hair ?

It's all up for interpretation. All I mean is the edge is still sharp enough to use without major increase in effort. You can still carve wood, slice paper, etc but it isn't going to shave like a freshly sharpened edge.

How do you touch up S110V ? I use the corners of the white SM stones and it's back to shaving sharpness.

[Evil D]

Scuze my ignorance but...what's an "working edge" ? Does it shave arm hair ?

It's all up for interpretation. All I mean is the edge is still sharp enough to use without major increase in effort. You can still carve wood, slice paper, etc but it isn't going to shave like a freshly sharpened edge.

How do you touch up S110V ? I use the corners of the white SM stones and it's back to shaving sharpness.

I avoid the corners because I always end up rounding off the tip so I just use the flats.

[FK]

Touchup on the SM works best if you first clean the stones with a scrub pad and Barkeeper's Friend.
The stones load up easily and become less efficient at steel removal.

I do this every time with my Endura and ZDP-189,,, very fast restore of edge.

Regards,
FK

[ZMW]

I never thought that the "working edge" that S30v settles into was enough for me. It'll stay paper-slicing sharp for a long while, but hair-shaving goes away pretty fast.

I took a leap of faith a few weeks back and got an S110v PM2, and the factory edge continues shaving hair after some fairly signficant cardboard cutting. It's definitely not weirdly sharp like it was out of the box, but it doesn't leave me dissatisfied the way that S30v would do after the same sort of workout regimen.

So I'd say, yes, it does something similar to what S30v does, but every stage of the edge's decline seems to be less severe. I'm a fan.

That is what I was looking for. Thanks!

[ZMW]

S110V will also tend to loose peek sharpness rather quickly, but the trade off is extreme working edge retention. Ultimately it depends on what you're doing. Personally I've found that all steels will settle into their "working edge" within the first few cuts depending on what you're cutting, so unless I have a knife that I've delegated to light use I will almost always opt for the longer working edge because even though it's a bummer to lose that hair popping edge, it's more of a bummer to lose all out sharpness and find yourself with a knife that takes excessive effort to cut or has gone totally blunt and won't cut at all.

I guess I was under the assumption that certain steels would hold that extreme sharpness longer then others, I have heard that about ZDP. But I guess there are no magic steels. VG-10 and S30v are the best steels I own - so nothing like M4, s110v, etc yet to compare it to...

[Ankerson]

S110V will also tend to loose peek sharpness rather quickly, but the trade off is extreme working edge retention. Ultimately it depends on what you're doing. Personally I've found that all steels will settle into their "working edge" within the first few cuts depending on what you're cutting, so unless I have a knife that I've delegated to light use I will almost always opt for the longer working edge because even though it's a bummer to lose that hair popping edge, it's more of a bummer to lose all out sharpness and find yourself with a knife that takes excessive effort to cut or has gone totally blunt and won't cut at all.

I guess I was under the assumption that certain steels would hold that extreme sharpness longer then others, I have heard that about ZDP. But I guess there are no magic steels. VG-10 and S30v are the best steels I own - so nothing like M4, s110v, etc yet to compare it to...

They are all really about the same extreme sharpness wise, I did the testing of the 2 extremes testing extreme sharpness using a sharpness tester and cutting cardboard.

S110V vs Super Blue and both tested the same as far as extreme sharpness holding goes.

But we are talking about a very narrow scope of sharpness here.

[ZMW]

Interesting, thanks Jim

[me2]

Some steels hold a shaving edge longer than others but the difference is small. All steels loose the shaving edge relatively rapidly. Also keep in mind a difference of 100 percent is the same as shaving after 10 cuts and shaving after 20 cuts.

As far as a working edge goes, I've found you can cut a massive amount of stock cutting material, rope or cardboard, and still slice paper with even a $7 knife in mystery stainless. A working edge has even a less clear definition than a shaving edge.

[Evil D]

Some steels hold a shaving edge longer than others but the difference is small. All steels loose the shaving edge relatively rapidly. Also keep in mind a difference of 100 percent is the same as shaving after 10 cuts and shaving after 20 cuts.

As far as a working edge goes, I've found you can cut a massive amount of stock cutting material, rope or cardboard, and still slice paper with even a $7 knife in mystery stainless. A working edge has even a less clear definition than a shaving edge.

Both can be greatly manipulated by blade and edge geometry and ultimately come down to what you're cutting. A carbon straight razor may hold a shaving edge for a very long time but it only ever cuts hair.

[Ankerson]

Some steels hold a shaving edge longer than others but the difference is small. All steels loose the shaving edge relatively rapidly. Also keep in mind a difference of 100 percent is the same as shaving after 10 cuts and shaving after 20 cuts.

As far as a working edge goes, I've found you can cut a massive amount of stock cutting material, rope or cardboard, and still slice paper with even a $7 knife in mystery stainless. A working edge has even a less clear definition than a shaving edge.

Both can be greatly manipulated by blade and edge geometry and ultimately come down to what you're cutting. A carbon straight razor may hold a shaving edge for a very long time but it only ever cuts hair.

And that's why perception is such a huge factor and why we see many threads like this these days.

Like you said it comes down to many factors and variables, that is the reason for the confusion.

There is not just one answer.

And it's such a narrow scope of sharpness in the 1st place I don't understand why it's even a topic or why it should even be a discussion. :confused:

As soon as the said knife is used to cut stuff that extreme sharpness is gone....

[me2]

It does depend on geometry, use and material in question. The general rule is to use the lowest edge angle possible without getting damage. This is dependent on the material cut, the steel involved, and the user of the knife.

This is a knife forum. We'll discuss nearly anything. Many users will sharpen a knife or at least touch it up when it quits shaving their arm. Seems a perfectly good question to discuss for those people.

In relation to S110V, I've found it to be about the same as other more mundane steels as far as holding a hair shaving edge. I don't think it will give you an advantage over what you've experienced from S30V.

[Ankerson]

Not really IMO, a clean apex is paramount... IE Sharpening and or sharpening talent.

And that is the largest variable of all.

Extreme sharpness level is irrelevant if people actually do use their knives.

The only thing it's really good for is showing off and shooting YT videos.... Other than that.... irrelevant....

[mattman]

I always like the way Gringo calls it a "novelty" edge... An edge just for fun.