Sal, any possibility of a Scandium knife?

[Doc Dan]

Sal,

Is there any possibility Spyderco would produce a knife with Aluminum/Scandium handles? It is lighter and stronger than Ti. S&W has been using it for years on some very heavy recoiling handguns and it holds up very well indeed. What are the prospects?

[The CoPilot]

I will be watching the response to this thread with interest. It sounds like a very interesting material for a potential handle scales. I'd love to see a Sprint Run C09 CoPilot be the first Spyderco knife to utilize this material.

It looks like Airbus is been working with a Scandium/Aluminum alloy known as Scalmalloy:

http://www.technology-licensing.com/etl ... alloy.html.

Sounds like a great alloy for a "CoPilot" :D :D :D :D :spyder:

[prog_knife]

Hmm... Schempp Tuff sprint run.

[SpyderEdgeForever]

Actually, you can add Scandium to steel and make a Scandium Blade, too. I would like to see a Spyderco knife with an Iridium Steel blade. But that is very unlikely.

[MattM68]

I'd be interested. That'll most likely be an expensive knife though!

[Halfneck]

Would it be worth the price increase?

[SpyderEdgeForever]

That is a good question, Halfneck.

[MattM68]

To be honest I'm not sure it would be worth the price increase. I'd still love to see it in a knife however. I really doubt it would be noticeably lighter than titanium, and it hasn't really been proven in any knife platforms. I wonder how the scandium would perform in parts like a lockbar. I'm interested to hear any info anyone has about Scandium. My only experience with the material is in a S&W 340 PD.

[Doc Dan]

It is a good bit lighter than Ti and it is stronger than either Ti or Al alone. I note that one company is now making firearms out of magnesium.

[NoFair]

Afaik it would be scales only and not suitable for a framelock. It is an aluminium alloy with a bit of scandium in it that is used in bikes and guns afaik and apart from the weight (and CF would be lighter and better imho) I don't think there are any real benefits in knife use.

[Doc Dan]

Precisely that the Scandium alloy is stronger and lighter than pure Ti is what would make it a great knife handle product. If it will not stand up to being used as a frame lock, then they can add steel to the lock as they do with Ti models. I prefer back locks anyway.

Of course I would love to see a Dragonfly or a Delica with these scales. However, this would be great for a P3 or a Millie. Think of a lighter metal handled Military for a second. That would be pretty nice. The P3 would be slimmer and more pocketable.

[VashHash]

I wouldn't be interested in buying one but I'd be interested to see how it performs for a knife handle.

[carl3989]

Here's my scandium Smith&Wesson second from the left. Notice how the finish is matt and dull neither as shiny as the blued guns or as shiny as the stainless. My feeling is that for a knife perhaps titanium may be a better option.

[VashHash]

After reading up on scandium a bit I don't think it would be well suited for knives except to say you have scandium on your knife. Not to mention the cost of it.

[Doc Dan]

On the contrary, an Al/Sc frame or handle on a knife makes perfect sense. The only issue would be whether it could be done without a lot of expense. For example, can it be easily ground into shape, or must it be cast, requiring a mould? However, Spyderco has made both Ti and Al handles in the past and the Al/Sc would be lighter and stronger, most probably.

As for the finish on the above firearms, that is probably just that, a finish. I would assume it would be able to be polished at least as well as Al alone.

See this link: http://www.scandium.org/Sc-Al.html

[demoncase]

On the contrary, an Al/Sc frame or handle on a knife makes perfect sense. The only issue would be whether it could be done without a lot of expense. For example, can it be easily ground into shape, or must it be cast, requiring a mould? However, Spyderco has made both Ti and Al handles in the past and the Al/Sc would be lighter and stronger, most probably.

As for the finish on the above firearms, that is probably just that, a finish. I would assume it would be able to be polished at least as well as Al alone.

See this link: http://www.scandium.org/Sc-Al.html

I think I posted in one of the Chappral threads about what the next scale material on that line should be about Scandium alloy a while back- I even cited the same example as you! I call that great minds thinking alike :D

With my metallurgy head on: It's going to come down to your point about ease of machining- and thereby, whether it's available in the right type of strip (or bar-stock) to work with the machining centres that Spyderco use in Golden, Seki or Tiachung....

...Everything I can see made from Scandium alloys looks like castings (S&W's revolver line) or thin-walled drawn tube (Mountain bike applications)...I'm not seeing flat shapes cut out.
May well be no-one is making flat-cut sheet or strip of it that would lend itself to knife scale manufacture without a lot of (costly) stock loss machining or (even more costly) investment casting.

I'm willing to bet it's a sod to machine and keep flat too.

[Doc Dan]

Yes, I guess great minds do think alike. I am sure you are on to something with your other comments. I wish Sal would weigh in on the subject.

[sal]

We'll have to get some and test it.

sal

[Bill1170]

There are so many metallic elements in the periodic table! Many of them are lesser known to the common individual. Many are problematic, e.g., too expensive, too reactive, too difficult to work, toxic, radioactive, etc. However, there are still plenty of candidates left. For many metals, the main reason to use them is exclusivity stemming from rarity. One form of rarity is plain scarcity, like platinum. Another form of rarity is that it just hasn't been done yet, like Al-Sc alloy.

I'd enjoy a small folder with a silicon bronze handle, have always liked that color. Could also be a bolster on a larger knife. It is dense, so a full handle of bronze on a larger knife would be a pocket anchor.

[SF Native]

It is a good bit lighter than Ti and it is stronger than either Ti or Al alone. I note that one company is now making firearms out of magnesium.

I'm not sure if strength is the key factor.
I would be more concerned about hardness. I don't like aluminum scales as they scratch very easily. I have tried to look up the scandium hardness and couldn't seem to find a definitive answer. As I recall, it was developed (or used) by the ussr on rocket nose cones. I think it improves weldability and tube walls can be thinner for bicycle use. Don't think that helps for knife scales.