How do you prioritize blade steel attributes, and why?

[vivi]

How do you prioritize the following blade attributes for an EDC folder? Why?

- Appearance (For example, would you take a damascus blade over a satin finished blade with slightly better edge holding?)
- Corrosion Resistance
- Cost
- Edge Retention
- Edge stability (How stable the edge behaves when ground at thin, acute angles)
- Grindability (How quickly you can remove steel from the blade when sharpening and reprofiling)
- Sharpening response (How sharp you can get it)
- Toughness


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Here is my list re-arranged to fit my preferences, with my reasons in parenthesis:


- Sharpening response (If I can't get it hair whittling sharp I won't carry it, period. Sold my custom tip up BG42 Military for that reason)

- Corrosion Resistance (I'm very active, live in a hot climate, and carry folders IWB on basketball shorts and running pants often. I find a lack of corrosion resistance tougher to compensate for than a lack of edge retention and other typically highly prized attributes)

- Edge stability (I prefer thin edges, around 8-12DPS for a large general use folder like the Military or Police. With steels that excel in this area, or tiny knives like the Spin, I often take them even lower)

- Grindability (I reprofile every knife I carry. The less time this takes, the better.)

- Toughness (Chipping has never been an issue for me, but I prefer it to stay that way :) The only stock edged folder I chipped was a 154CM CE Manix 2 that was saber ground, it chipped cutting a 2 liter bottle in half when I sliced through the dense plastic at the bottom)

- Edge Retention (Not a high priority for me. H1 and VG10 easily get me through the day, and using a ~10DPS edge with a ~15DPS microbevel means a touch-up takes a mere 30 seconds on my UF bench stone to get them tree-topping sharp again. I also keep a sheet of 1000 grit sandpaper in my wallet which brings back the edge on my knives in 30 seconds in the field. I also carry a Tasman Salt SE when cutting super abrasive materials like skateboard grip-tape that would chew up an edge on my primary folder. I'm honestly baffled at how edge holding seems to be the #1 priority for some folks, when that sheet of sandpaper lets me break down an entire warehouse full of cardboard with basically any steel there is, while other attributes are more difficult to compensate for. I'd rather spend 30 seconds touching up an edge than 30 minutes breaking down my knife and polishing rust off the liners, tang, etc.)

- Cost (Very low priority. I'd rather pay an extra 50$ for a higher end steel that meets my needs than save some money, since I typically use the same knife for a decade or more).

- Appearance (Could care less, its all about performance for me. I stay away from anything bead blasted and gravitate towards more polished blades or DLC coatings due to their increased corrosion resistance over bead blasting and rougher finishes. I often polish my blades by hand for this reason)

[Ankerson]

I think there are a lot of things that are vastly over rated right now in the knife industry.

Certain buzz words that really don't make any difference one way or another as far as knives go, especially when talking about folders.

Personally I like good edge retention, most steels will do well enough in that regard as long as they are made by a top company like Spyderco.

And edges don't really fall apart either from what I have personally seen over the decades.

I have pounded steels like 10V and S30V through nails with little or no damage, same with hardened steel staples so there do seem to be factors that some tend to push that are like I said are vastly over rated.

Some steels are vastly better than some would have people believe while some others that have been overhyped that aren't really any better when talking about knife blades.

Geometry is huge and along with proper heat treating for the said use of the knife or knives is paramount to performance.

However things do tend to be subjective as perception and other factors seem to way in quite a bit, but then that is human nature.

[vivi]

Geometry is huge and along with proper heat treating for the said use of the knife or knives is paramount to performance.

I think this makes a bigger difference than steel type in many cases.

To be honest I was not happy with my first Spyderco. I purchased a VG10 Saber Ground Delica, and compared to the reprofiled swiss army knife I had been carrying prior to that, the cutting performance was worse. Slicing cardboard with each side by side the SAK was clearly doing better.

However, with more comparable geometry, VG10 showed superior edge holding.

This was back when I didn't understand the role blade geometry played and thought the Delica would cut better because its more expensive, had a "superior" steel, and everyone on bladeforums told me it'd beat the pants off my Swiss Army Knife

[Ankerson]

Thinner is normally better to a point, one can push anything too far in that regard.

As long as the geometry suits the intended use of the knife it should be fine.

[The Deacon]

- Appearance: a damascus blade Is definitely something I'm willing to pay extra for, but not at the expesnse of:
- Corrosion Resistance: which is very important to me, as long as the blade also has decent:
- Edge Retention: at roughly 30º and decent:
- Grindability: so that I can sharpen it easily

As for the rest;

- Cost: for the "right" steel in the "right" knife cost is not an issue. As an example, I'd cheerfully pay $500 to $600 for a bolstered Stretch in Odin's Eye Damasteel, but wouldn't be the least bit interested in a Military or PM2 in the same steel for $100.

- Edge stability: For me, this is not really a factor on pocket knives, 30º is acute enough for what I do with them.

- Sharpening response: For me, this is not really a factor on pocket knives. The only things I do that require that level of sharpness are best done with X-Acto knives and double edge razor blades.

- Toughness: For me, this is not really a factor on pocket knives. If I want to chop down trees, I have a perfectly good $25 machete. If I want to pry stuff, I've got a great little $6 pry bar.

[PayneTrain]

1. Corrosion Resistance
I am not the most vigilant when it comes to keeping a knife clean and/or dry. I sweat a lot, I eat a lot, and I use all of my knives for everything, so this is the first consideration. Am I going to want this knife to survive in some harsh environments? Am I going to be carrying this one possibly on the boat (salt water) or hiking (probably saltier water, I know, gross), or is it going to see most of its duty hanging out in my pocket just in case? This is why I won't buy a 52100 Military. For the places I carry my Military, I will ruin 52100 and it will become a nuisance. My Caly 3, on the other hand, is a more casual knife so Super Blue is just fine. I love working on and marveling at my apple patina at work!

2-8. Everything else
Spyderco doesn't use junk steels. Even the lower end stuff is still very good blade steel. I don't do horrible things to my knives, not even S110V can survive a day of linoleum and drywall, and ceramics can sharpen anything, so everything else is just gravy for me.

Now I am just considering folders here. Should we step out into fixed blades, kitchen knives, or the sharpened pry bar I keep in my car in case I need to fell a tree on a whim, then I start considering things like toughness and fine edge stability.

[vivi]

Deacon, what's your favorite Damascus blade in your collection?

Thinner is normally better to a point, one can push anything too far in that regard.

As long as the geometry suits the intended use of the knife it should be fine.

Hah, that's true. Too thin is a lot further than I initially expected though...but I did find that point

UKPK reprofiled convex pretty much flat along the primary grind. Chipped out whittling hardwoods so I added a microbevel, which stabilized the edge. Not bad for S30V, a steel known for being chippy.



Took a ZDP189 Caly JR even thinner. :D

[Surfingringo]

I will list attributes in their importance to me for a work (fishing) knife.

1. Corrosion resistance- Reasons obvious.
2. Sharpening response- I like a steel that I can get sticky sharp with a few passes on the microbevel. Not all steels are equal in this regard...(though they will all get plenty sharp with the right amount of work)
3. Edge retention- this is WAY down the list from #2 but I do need a steel to meet at least a certain threshold of performance. Once over that threshold, super extreme edge retention/abrasion resistance doesn't mean much to me as I touch em up often.
4. Toughnesss- this one sounds important but honestly, I've never had any problems with any steels chipping out on me in the work I do, and that includes super thin fillet knives that I use as hard or harder than any of the others.
5. Edge Stability- Meh, I don't run thin angles

....the others don't matter to me at all

Everyone will have a slightly different ordering of these attributes and will have their reasons for that ordering. That's what makes this stuff interesting.

[SG89]

Keep an edge, dont chip, and dont rust.

[vivi]

This is my Spin. Been a little while since I last broke it down for cleaning. Good example of why I love the Salt series.

[Evil D]

I used to really favor high wear resistant steels because of the work I did. These days I've gotten really open minded about how different steels behave so I don't really prioritize any particular properties per say. Of course like everyone I want an edge to last forever and be stupid sharp and easy to sharpen. For the most part just as Sal is famous for saying, they're all good just different.

[dogrunner]

1. retains high cutting performance. not just edge retention bc I don't want a wear resistant but crappy edge. I hate downtime for sharpening; I hate sharpening. So I want it to be able to perform cutting duties and never need sharpening :)
2. Toughness, so it can be ground thin to make it a high performance cutter.
3. uh, it should be low maintance otherwise, but for me that just means wipe and go with degunking as needed. Corrosion is rarely a problem.

[bdblue]

most of the knives I use are folders, so for folders:
edgeholding
toughness
corrosion resistance

For fixed blades:
toughness
edgeholding
corrosion resistance

[Steel_Drake]

My priorities for blade steel attributes for EDC knives follow from how they are used.

My EDC cutting tasks primarily consist of corrugated cardboard, paperboard, clamshell packaging, consumer grade zip-ties, and food prep and I typically don't use my EDC knives for an extended duration of cutting in a single day (so more like breaking down a couple of cardboard boxes than doing so for several hours straight). This allows me to run fairly thin edge geometries with fairly polished apex finishes.

I typically reprofile my edge bevels to ~8-10 degrees per side and often thin out the primary grinds on my knives and then use a ~20 degree per side microbevel set and kept touched-up on a Spyderco M, DMT EEF or 16 micron CBN on balsa strop (which leaves a much finer apex than the particle size suggests due to some complex dynamics of how particulate abrasives interact with compressible surfaces).

Because I don't usually do an extensive amount of cutting work in a single day, the apex is typically not that damaged after a single day's use and can be touched up to ~100% of initial sharpness so long as there were not any microscopic apex chips or rolls that mean I would have to remove too much material to touch up the microbevel.

As a result of the above,

1) Apex stability: The ability to take and hold a polished apex at thin, acute angles and resist microscopic chipping or rolling at the apex are the most important steel property for me in my EDC knives because this is what determines whether I can run as thin an edge geometry as I prefer and how long a knife can be kept touched up between full sharpenings.

2) Toughness: Only in as much as the toughness allows the steel to be heat treated harder without undue brittleness, since increasing the hardness typically increases apex stability.

3) Wear resistance: Not really that important to me for my use case, but I will take it so long as it does not come at too much expense to apex stability or toughness (see: M4, Cruwear).

4) Grindability: Not super critical since I have very fast grinding stones, but if I'm not getting wear resistance then I'm getting grindability (well, essentially by definition).

5) Corrosion resistance: Nice if I can get it, but will happily sacrifice it to get 1-4.

6) Cost: As long as the price isn't totally and completely outrageous, I don't care.

NR) Sharpening response: Not an issue, I can get anything from 1095 to Maxamet equally sharp.

NR) Appearance: Couldn't care less.

These priorities would be somewhat different for non EDC knives, where there would usually be a task specific prioritization.

[Mic1]

I think there are a lot of things that are vastly over rated right now in the knife industry.

Certain buzz words that really don't make any difference one way or another as far as knives go, especially when talking about folders.

Personally I like good edge retention, most steels will do well enough in that regard as long as they are made by a top company like Spyderco.

And edges don't really fall apart either from what I have personally seen over the decades.

I have pounded steels like 10V and S30V through nails with little or no damage, same with hardened steel staples so there do seem to be factors that some tend to push that are like I said are vastly over rated.

Some steels are vastly better than some would have people believe while some others that have been over hyped that aren't really any better when talking about knife blades.

Geometry is huge and along with proper heat treating for the said use of the knife or knives is paramount to performance.

However things do tend to be subjective as perception and other factors seem to way in quite a bit, but then that is human nature.

Thinner is normally better to a point, one can push anything too far in that regard.

As long as the geometry suits the intended use of the knife it should be fine.

All of this +

Ergonomics: The blade shape and grind in relationship to the handle design is huge.

1 High Wear Resistance and the ability to take a very sharp edge / Expert Heat Treat.

2 Toughness to a point as far as I am concerned if it can handle cutting contact with knots in hard wood and green bone its good enough for me. If I need tougher I'll get a better tool for the job.

3 Corrosion Resistance dont care one way or another #1 trumps this one.

4 I have never met a steel that my DMT stones dont make short work of so sharpening is not a big deal either. Also I never take an edge past 15-18 a side. Any thinner and you should get a straight razor or scalpel.

[The Mastiff]

Ergonomics and lock type have always been important to me also but I have become even more picky the last few years with what I carry. There was a time I would carry anything to try a new steel. Not so much anymore.

Steel: balance between toughness and wear resistance. Is hard to explain but easy to find for me in steels like 3V, Cruwear, M2. M4. 4V etc. I do prefer folders to be at the least around rc 60 in these steels. Some higher.

The edge stability to take these to 25-30 degrees inclusive is enough for me. I tend to use the right tool for the job so I'm generally not going to baton or cut steel or aluminum with a folder.

Sharpening is no problem but I do not enjoy fighting with stubborn, rubbery burrs. One reason I like higher hardness steels I suppose.

Corrosion resistance is generally not a problem for me and I don't factor it into the equation. Steels like W2, O1, 52100, 5160 and Super Blue rust pretty easily for some but I keep mine looking the same as I do my VG10 or S30V knives.

I still would love to try F8 as an Ideal steel. I have never seen it though. It would take a special order of probably the whole batch.
It's a 1% Carbon steel with 8% tungsten and not much more. It's generally not used anymore in industry which is why we never see even remnants .

Joe

[Igi964]

1. Corrosion resistance. Really don't like stain or patina discoloration:(
2. Edge retention. Higher is better for me.
I don't care about toughness, I used my folders on cutting. My favorite steels are S110V, M390 and serrated H1. I'm curious about serrated LC200N. Time will tell:)

[ZrowsN1s]

- Sharpening response (How sharp you can get it) .....I want it sharp.
- Edge stability (How stable the edge behaves when ground at thin, acute angles) ....really sharp
- Edge Retention ....and I want it to stay that way
- Corrosion Resistance ....the less maintenance the better
- Toughness ....it would be nice if I could abuse it
- Appearance ....I think functional is the best look but, does it come in Burnt Orange?
- Cost .....Whats my new dream knife going to cost me?
- Grindability (How quickly you can remove steel from the blade when sharpening and reprofiling) .....I can sharpen just about anything these days, not worried about it.

[qazy]

1. Cost - In a sense of value per $ (subjective)
2. Appearance - I must like how the knife looks
3. Good Heat Treat - I like my steel to have good HT
4. Sharpening response - I like it shaaaarp
4. Edge Retention - I value good edge retention, even though I love sharpening
6. Toughness - if it an outdoor type knife
7. Grindability - Easy of sharpening/maintaining geometry is plus
8. Edge stability - The geometry right behind the edge is more important than just a very acute angle for overall knife performance
9. Corrosion Resistance - I owe and love carbon knives. It's my second nature to wipe and dry any knife after use