Sal, hope to hear from you

[Haggenator]

Just to give my 2 cents. My southard got worse wirh use in terms of smoothness. Also my mantra bearings now rattle and sounds like something is loose. Havnt taken it apart yet due to warranty issues.

While my gayle bradley 2 and slyz bowie have gotten smoother with use. I prefer the PB washers.

While apostleP is just a man with a opinion. He does bring up good points with other knives edges specifically the plunge grind and ease of resharpening.

I believe spyderco wants community feedback. But at the end of the day its their company.

This wont stop me from buying spydercos. But I am done with their bearings in less they change something.

[dogrunner]

I bought a Mantra2 because I liked the blade shape and steel so much, and on a Delica-style handle. Great package, but I did not get it because it was a flipper, but flipping needs to work on this model. It flipped great at first, but over time got worse. Unfortunately, the Mantra2 does not have a thumb opening (which would have given it a different blade shape - the Mantra1 obviously). I sent it in to CS, was told there was no defect and no warranty issue, so I figured I'd just have to live with it. I'm considering some way to add a thumbstud or wave or other opening device attached to the trademark hole, because I've given up on flipping it. Disappointing. I don't have it back yet, so have not had a chance to figure out a workaround. My Southard (original model) never flipped great - takes a wrist flip to open after partial flipping. I have other brands that flip fine, so it's not just my weak fingers :)
So you can agree with Bodog's method or not, but I for one appreciate an open and respectful discussion.
fwiw I have been predominately a Spyderco user since the late 1980s and I still am (Military or PM2 every day, among others that rotate in). They work (mostly)!

[Bodog]

Very true, on both counts. Still, I take any negative comments about a brand that generally meets or exceeds my own expectations with a grain of salt.

We differ there, depending on the person. If they don't know what they're talking about then I agree. Like if someone says a victorinox inox blade will cut through rope longer than S110V, I ignore that. But if someone like Ankerson says ZT's version of Elmax will out cut Spyderco's version of Elmax, then I'd listen even though Spyderco usually does these things better.


And, when religion gets added to the mix as a sign of someones bona fides, that grain of salt instantly increases to a 5 gallon pail's worth.

Don't care one way or another.

Don't have a dog in this fight, frankly find the idea of adding flippers, waves, and other "alternative opening devices" to Spyderco knives rather idiotic, but that's just me.

Agree.

Answers in the quote.

[Bodog]

I bought a Mantra2 because I liked the blade shape and steel so much, and on a Delica-style handle. Great package, but I did not get it because it was a flipper, but flipping needs to work on this model. It flipped great at first, but over time got worse. Unfortunately, the Mantra2 does not have a thumb opening (which would have given it a different blade shape - the Mantra1 obviously). I sent it in to CS, was told there was no defect and no warranty issue, so I figured I'd just have to live with it. I'm considering some way to add a thumbstud or wave or other opening device attached to the trademark hole, because I've given up on flipping it. Disappointing. I don't have it back yet, so have not had a chance to figure out a workaround. My Southard (original model) never flipped great - takes a wrist flip to open after partial flipping. I have other brands that flip fine, so it's not just my weak fingers :)
So you can agree with Bodog's method or not, but I for one appreciate an open and respectful discussion.
fwiw I have been predominately a Spyderco user since the late 1980s and I still am (Military or PM2 every day, among others that rotate in). They work (mostly)!

There's a link in the Russian guy's youtube video to bearing washers that fix the issue. They're pretty cheap. I put the link up but it's to the Russian version of aliexpress. Don't know why but after that every time I tried looking on the US version of Aliexpress the writing would be in Russian. Guess I need to clear my cookies. Anyway, find the store that sells those bearings on the Russian site and look for the same store on the English site. Still there, I just ordered them and will give feedback when they get here in the next couple of weeks. I just want the mantra (and other knives if the bearings are any good) to work well. I bet people will swap the original bearings pretty quickly once they find something that works. Maybe these will and people will be happy and spyderco won't need to issue a recall.

[Horizon]

I bought a Mantra2 because I liked the blade shape and steel so much, and on a Delica-style handle. Great package, but I did not get it because it was a flipper, but flipping needs to work on this model. It flipped great at first, but over time got worse. Unfortunately, the Mantra2 does not have a thumb opening (which would have given it a different blade shape - the Mantra1 obviously). I sent it in to CS, was told there was no defect and no warranty issue, so I figured I'd just have to live with it. I'm considering some way to add a thumbstud or wave or other opening device attached to the trademark hole, because I've given up on flipping it. Disappointing. I don't have it back yet, so have not had a chance to figure out a workaround. My Southard (original model) never flipped great - takes a wrist flip to open after partial flipping. I have other brands that flip fine, so it's not just my weak fingers :)
So you can agree with Bodog's method or not, but I for one appreciate an open and respectful discussion.
fwiw I have been predominately a Spyderco user since the late 1980s and I still am (Military or PM2 every day, among others that rotate in). They work (mostly)!

There's a link in the Russian guy's youtube video to bearing washers that fix the issue. They're pretty cheap. I put the link up but it's to the Russian version of aliexpress. Don't know why but after that every time I tried looking on the US version of Aliexpress the writing would be in Russian. Guess I need to clear my cookies. Anyway, find the store that sells those bearings on the Russian site and look for the same store on the English site. Still there, I just ordered them and will give feedback when they get here in the next couple of weeks. I just want the mantra (and other knives if the bearings are any good) to work well. I bet people will swap the original bearings pretty quickly once they find something that works. Maybe these will and people will be happy and spyderco won't need to issue a recall.

If Sal says that he is going to look into it, he will.

[Bodog]

If Sal says that he is going to look into it, he will.

No doubt. But things don't happen overnight

[paladin]

While my gayle bradley 2 and slyz bowie have gotten smoother with use. I prefer the PB washers.

GB2 & Slysz aren't on bearings, are they? :confused:

[Haggenator]

While my gayle bradley 2 and slyz bowie have gotten smoother with use. I prefer the PB washers.

GB2 & Slysz aren't on bearings, are they? :confused:

Sorry for the confusion. I meant GB2 and slysz bowie are on PB washers and they have only gotten smoother with use.

[paladin]

While my gayle bradley 2 and slyz bowie have gotten smoother with use. I prefer the PB washers.

GB2 & Slysz aren't on bearings, are they? :confused:

Sorry for the confusion. I meant GB2 and slysz bowie are on PB washers and they have only gotten smoother with use.

I kinda misread, too...BTW, let me be the first to welcome you to the boards! :)

[Mic1]

I almost bought a Domino but decided to wait and see how this gets resolved.

[dplafoll]

I've taken my Mantra's washers out entirely. I voided my warranty to try to adjust the washers by flipping them over. I did that a few times and it helped each time, until they dished in again. Eventually one of the washers actually broke, and that's when they both came out. If I could get some washers, preferably PB, that are made to spec, I'd pay Spyderco for them, though I'd prefer not to have to do that (maybe just shipping). I accept that technically I voided the warranty and broke the washers. I'd even pay to ship the knife in and have it worked on and pay to have good washers put in.
The important thing for me is to see Spyderco acknowledge the issue and offer some sort of solution, even one for which I would have to pay having disassembled the knife.

[SpeedHoles]

I almost bought a Domino but decided to wait and see how this gets resolved.

This makes me wonder...
Just to add to the discussion; whenever this topic pops up, it always has multiple mentions and accounts of the Domino having the best flipping action out of the rest of the Spyderco flippers? Especially the BBS Domino...
Why is this never/rarely refuted or disagreed upon?
Yet all other flipper models have multiple public complaints about lack of action?
I could be wrong, but I thought they all shared the same bearing/pivot system?

Is it the blade weight/balance/pivot-to-flipper geometry of the Domino is just more ideal?
Was there additional finishing done to the BBS version, or smoother blade tang, or tighter QA tolerance?

I can say for a fact my BBS Dominos (I have 2) flip just as well as my ZT. And that is all without modification, disassembly, nor polishing. But my Southard is mediocre at best and inconsistent. My Dice is better than the Southard.

After the Southard I never bought another flipper model. It seems these forum threads only got more prevalent, and even common...
Unrelated to this issue, my interest in flippers slightly waned, but I don't have the budget to gamble just see if I get lucky with a cherry, or lose with a lemon. If I were to purchase another flipper I'd definitely like it to be phenomenal at what it is, not just "functioning" (especially if it has a nonfunctional Spyderhole like Mantra 2).

[dogrunner]

I bought a Mantra2 because I liked the blade shape and steel so much, and on a Delica-style handle. Great package, but I did not get it because it was a flipper, but flipping needs to work on this model. It flipped great at first, but over time got worse. Unfortunately, the Mantra2 does not have a thumb opening (which would have given it a different blade shape - the Mantra1 obviously). I sent it in to CS, was told there was no defect and no warranty issue, so I figured I'd just have to live with it. I'm considering some way to add a thumbstud or wave or other opening device attached to the trademark hole, because I've given up on flipping it. Disappointing. I don't have it back yet, so have not had a chance to figure out a workaround. My Southard (original model) never flipped great - takes a wrist flip to open after partial flipping. I have other brands that flip fine, so it's not just my weak fingers :)
So you can agree with Bodog's method or not, but I for one appreciate an open and respectful discussion.
fwiw I have been predominately a Spyderco user since the late 1980s and I still am (Military or PM2 every day, among others that rotate in). They work (mostly)!

There's a link in the Russian guy's youtube video to bearing washers that fix the issue. They're pretty cheap. I put the link up but it's to the Russian version of aliexpress. Don't know why but after that every time I tried looking on the US version of Aliexpress the writing would be in Russian. Guess I need to clear my cookies. Anyway, find the store that sells those bearings on the Russian site and look for the same store on the English site. Still there, I just ordered them and will give feedback when they get here in the next couple of weeks. I just want the mantra (and other knives if the bearings are any good) to work well. I bet people will swap the original bearings pretty quickly once they find something that works. Maybe these will and people will be happy and spyderco won't need to issue a recall.

Thanks - you are correct - if replacing the bearings with suitable washers is a solution I'd be all over that. I don't have the knife back yet, but I am hopeful Sal will let us know his perceptions and suggestions.

[dplafoll]

I'd be fine keeping the bearings... as long as the terrible washers are replaced. I don't mean to sound like a dick, but if ZT and others can do bearings well, I expect as good or better from Spyderco. **** my Nirvana is pretty much perfect. I'm not taking it apart to check, but what's different in there?

[rybu0305]

I am just chiming in as another loyal Spyderco fan who has had issues and think this needs to be investigated. I have ended up not keeping every bearing Spyderco I have tried; the Domino, Mantra, and Advocate have just not felt right and instead of troubleshooting or sending back to Spyderco it is easier to just go with other models.

The PB washers are obviously sufficient for a lot of platforms. I don't know how that would translate to flippers. But Look at the PM2, possibly Spydercos highest selling model on washers and smooth as silk. I don't hear a lot of people screaming for bearings In the PM2,it just works. With that much success with the PM2, Spyderco has already proven they can do their own thing with great success. Either improve the engineering with the bearings to meet the quality people expect from Spyderco or just go with what works because, well...it works.

This actually makes me more interested in Spydies without bearings and I will curb my excitement about bearing knives until there is a solution. Thanks Sal, for responding to this thread.

[Bodog]

I'd be fine keeping the bearings... as long as the terrible washers are replaced. I don't mean to sound like a dick, but if ZT and others can do bearings well, I expect as good or better from Spyderco. **** my Nirvana is pretty much perfect. I'm not taking it apart to check, but what's different in there?

Same washers and bearings it looks like but a heavier blade is moving them. If you have a light blade you need some really free spinning bearings if you're gonna use em. The bearings I referred to earlier are caged in brass or something and there's not much of the bearing touching the cage compared to the bearings caged in plastic where a large portion of the bearings are rubbing against plastic. I wonder if all the bearings actually spin.

If you wedge the lockbar open on the nirvana does the blade at least move on its own weight? It should if the bearings are spinning as freely as they should. It's a pretty beefy blade.

[timlara]

Just to add to the discussion; whenever this topic pops up, it always has multiple mentions and accounts of the Domino having the best flipping action out of the rest of the Spyderco flippers? Especially the BBS Domino...
Why is this never/rarely refuted or disagreed upon?
Yet all other flipper models have multiple public complaints about lack of action?
I could be wrong, but I thought they all shared the same bearing/pivot system?

Is it the blade weight/balance/pivot-to-flipper geometry of the Domino is just more ideal?
Was there additional finishing done to the BBS version, or smoother blade tang, or tighter QA tolerance?

I can say for a fact my BBS Dominos (I have 2) flip just as well as my ZT. And that is all without modification, disassembly, nor polishing. But my Southard is mediocre at best and inconsistent. My Dice is better than the Southard.

Same experience here, sort of...I have owned two Dominos. The first one was a standard production model, which had centering problems and terrible action (wouldn't even flip, ever, unless you gave it a hard wrist flick). I bought it online from a reputable authorized dealer but I thought it would be easier to just take it over to the Spyderco Factory Outlet for a warranty claim instead of returning it. It turned out that the warranty department wouldn't fix it because they said it had been opened, though it certainly wasn't opened by me. Perhaps another customer tampered with it and returned it and the dealer made a mistake and somehow it got re-sold as new. Luckily, the dealer still let me return it in the end.

My second Domino was the BBS 204p sprint and as Speedholes mentioned, mine too was perfect out of the box and has remained so for a couple of years or however long it's been out now...though I haven't carried it a ton, so I can't speak for sure on the durability. But for whatever reason, that one seems to be a good specimen.

I also bought a Mantra 2 when they first came out and it is somewhere in between the two. Not terrible like my first Domino experience, but it is certainly disappointing in that it fails to flip fully open about 20% of the time. For the Mantra 2, that is actually a more serious functional problem than some of the other flipper models as there is no Spydie hole to open it another way. I bought it specifically for that reason - to have a flipper only model that was "different" for Spyderco and also because it is so nice and slim in the pocket.

I too would love to see an officially sanctioned "recall" option where some alternative PB washers made to spec could be substituted in to fix the issues.

[dreadpirate]

If Sal says that he is going to look into it, he will.

No doubt. But things don't happen overnight

If this continues to get attention on social media - the sense of urgency may increase. I for one if I had read this thread first, I would not have ordered my Mantra and am really thinking about returning it straight away as soon as it arrives.

[toxophilus]

If Sal says that he is going to look into it, he will.

No doubt. But things don't happen overnight

If this continues to get attention on social media - the sense of urgency may increase. I for one if I had read this thread first, I would not have ordered my Mantra and am really thinking about returning it straight away as soon as it arrives.

Give it chance DreadPirate, I've never had any issues with my Mantra 1... and if there is it may show up sooner than later :)

[Bodog]

If Sal says that he is going to look into it, he will.

No doubt. But things don't happen overnight

If this continues to get attention on social media - the sense of urgency may increase. I for one if I had read this thread first, I would not have ordered my Mantra and am really thinking about returning it straight away as soon as it arrives.

Still a great knife, just not a great flipper. It's like it rides on slightly grainy, slightly tight washers. The thumbhole still works. Not trying to sway you one way or another, just giving credit where credit is due. And yours may be one of the good ones or the issue may not bother you at all. At first I was so disappointed that it just sat on my dresser. Once I gave up the idea of it being a flipper I have carried it everyday and have been fine with it. Still disappointed with the bearings because they add nothing and subtract functionality but otherwise the knife is a great edc. And this is coming from a guy who normally likes bigger knives. It's actually the smallest knife I currently own and have no regrets about buying it. The bearings need to be better to stay competitive, that's all. If they can't get up to snuff with bearings they need to go back to what they've already proven they can do really well...PB washers.