Manix 2 C101PGY2 W/ Maxamet

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tvenuto
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Re: Manix 2 C101PGY2 W/ Maxamet

#61

Post by tvenuto »

Mr Danger wrote:No strop. Just mediums at 40. I saw people say S110V works better coarse because sharpening too fine can "knock carbon loose". I dunno...
Hmm... Well I can tell you that the information in quotes is ridiculous, or at least stated in a ridiculous way that can't be shown to be true. Perhaps they were referring to "carbide tear-out" where a relatively large chunk of carbide, instead of wearing down, is torn out of the steel matrix entirely thus leaving a chip.

When I think about these sorts of things, I always try imagine what the situation would be at the very extreme ends of the spectrum. So let's imagine two cases: an extremely fine sharpening, and an extremely coarse sharpening.

For the extremely fine sharpening, let's imagine an edge that has been sharpened to a mirror polish. Even at small scales, there would be very little irregularity and stresses would thus be evenly distributed. This is why all of the light is reflected in the same direction, having a "mirror" effect. If you imagine a circular glass table top, looking at the edge you can't imagine any one place that would be more likely to break off than any other.

For the extremely coarse edge, imagine an abrasive so coarse that the scratch pattern is actually visible to you, which would essentially be a serrated edge. In this case you can see smaller areas that would be more likely to break off than the flatter areas around them. In engineering speak, the irregular surface has created stress concentrations.

Thus, if you're experiencing chipping, I would say it could actually be better to sharpen the edge bevel to a higher (finer) finish. The verdict is still out as to whether increasing the angle of the edge bevel decreases carbide tear-out. Since the edge needs to come to an apex at some point anyway, it's possible that larger carbides tear out of the matrix even at more obtuse angles. That's one reason S110V is a powder metallurgy steel, since the powder size effectively limits the size of the carbide that can form.
clovisc
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Re: Manix 2 C101PGY2 W/ Maxamet

#62

Post by clovisc »

Seems like Maxamet and Manix XL would be ideal companions...
tripscheck'em
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Re: Manix 2 C101PGY2 W/ Maxamet

#63

Post by tripscheck'em »

Cujobob wrote: but Maxamet should be able to cut for much longer.
Really? s110v has noticeably more carbon and vanadium alone.
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Re: Manix 2 C101PGY2 W/ Maxamet

#64

Post by tripscheck'em »

Mr Danger wrote:Can anyone speculate on how brittle or chippy this would be versus S110V? Love my Manix LW but the blade seems to constantly chip even cutting twine.
Visible chipping just on twine rope? Are you doing the light test to detect the chipping?

Hard to believe any steel is that brittle, must be the strop. If you don't do a strop just right, it can really screw up your edge.
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Re: Manix 2 C101PGY2 W/ Maxamet

#65

Post by bearfacedkiller »

tripscheck'em wrote:
Cujobob wrote: but Maxamet should be able to cut for much longer.
Really? s110v has noticeably more carbon and vanadium alone.
Ankerson's test showed that Maxamet far out performed S110V in edge retention. They are both high alloy and high carbon although much different. Don't forget that the Maxamet is being run much harder than the S110V. I have only used the Maxamet a little bit since I have been quite busy with a big move lately but from my experience it seems to be both easier to sharpen as well as having greater edge retention. This doesn't make a lot of sense so I will need to play with the Maxamet some more to make sure this stays true.
-Darby
sal wrote:Knife afi's are pretty far out, steel junky's more so, but "edge junky's" are just nuts. :p
SpyderEdgeForever wrote: Also, do you think a kangaroo would eat a bowl of spagetti with sauce if someone offered it to them?
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bearfacedkiller
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Re: Manix 2 C101PGY2 W/ Maxamet

#66

Post by bearfacedkiller »

Mr Danger wrote:
tvenuto wrote:
Mr Danger wrote:I originally went 30 on the sharpmaker from medium to ultrafine then stropped. Edge was perfect. I cut at the most some slices of bread on a paper plate and then a piece of twine on a hay bale and there was suddenly 3 large chips. I read that the S110V can have chipping if sharpened too fine so I tried it at 40 on the medium stones and got a good edge but then another chip appeared at the back of the back of the blade despite not cutting anything other than a tomato off a vine. Not sure what to think.
You might be fatiguing the edge with the strop. Maybe omit this step, do a very few light passes at 40 deg on sharpmaker to create a microbevel and see if that solves the issue. It's not clear whether you stropped in your second example as well.
No strop. Just mediums at 40. I saw people say S110V works better coarse because sharpening too fine can "knock carbon loose". I dunno...
This is not normal behavior for S110V in my experience. Either your knife is defective or (I don't mean to offend, I just don't know you or your sharpening ability) or their is some operator error going on. I have used S110V very hard and found it quite durable. I would play with sharpening it some more and if you continue to have the same issues then send it in to Spyderco. Your knife should be holding up better than that.

Also, don't take any more advice from whoever said anything about knocking carbon out of the steel. That is just silly. :)
-Darby
sal wrote:Knife afi's are pretty far out, steel junky's more so, but "edge junky's" are just nuts. :p
SpyderEdgeForever wrote: Also, do you think a kangaroo would eat a bowl of spagetti with sauce if someone offered it to them?
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Mr Danger
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Re: Manix 2 C101PGY2 W/ Maxamet

#67

Post by Mr Danger »

bearfacedkiller wrote:
Mr Danger wrote:
tvenuto wrote:
Mr Danger wrote:I originally went 30 on the sharpmaker from medium to ultrafine then stropped. Edge was perfect. I cut at the most some slices of bread on a paper plate and then a piece of twine on a hay bale and there was suddenly 3 large chips. I read that the S110V can have chipping if sharpened too fine so I tried it at 40 on the medium stones and got a good edge but then another chip appeared at the back of the back of the blade despite not cutting anything other than a tomato off a vine. Not sure what to think.
You might be fatiguing the edge with the strop. Maybe omit this step, do a very few light passes at 40 deg on sharpmaker to create a microbevel and see if that solves the issue. It's not clear whether you stropped in your second example as well.
No strop. Just mediums at 40. I saw people say S110V works better coarse because sharpening too fine can "knock carbon loose". I dunno...
This is not normal behavior for S110V in my experience. Either your knife is defective or (I don't mean to offend, I just don't know you or your sharpening ability) or their is some operator error going on. I have used S110V very hard and found it quite durable. I would play with sharpening it some more and if you continue to have the same issues then send it in to Spyderco. Your knife should be holding up better than that.

Also, don't take any more advice from whoever said anything about knocking carbon out of the steel. That is just silly. :)
I'm fairly confident in my sharpening ability (always learning though) but stropping may have caused some of the earlier chipping. However, I was pretty surprised that it chipped after putting on a 40 edge. Maybe I thinned out the edge too much with initial strop and then the edge was already too compromised when I put the 40 on. I've since reset the edge with cbn rods to 40 but haven't cut anything yet.
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sal
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Re: Manix 2 C101PGY2 W/ Maxamet

#68

Post by sal »

You can always send it back to us for a check. If you do, please leave it with the chips so we can study it. Difficult for us to reproduce .

sal
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Mr Danger
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Re: Manix 2 C101PGY2 W/ Maxamet

#69

Post by Mr Danger »

sal wrote:You can always send it back to us for a check. If you do, please leave it with the chips so we can study it. Difficult for us to reproduce .

sal
Thanks, Sal. If anything further happens I'll send it in.
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tripscheck'em
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Re: Manix 2 C101PGY2 W/ Maxamet

#70

Post by tripscheck'em »

bearfacedkiller wrote:
Ankerson's test showed that Maxamet far out performed S110V in edge retention.

wow, where will these be available?

I see Bentoboxshop is going to sell them, but 200 for FRN handles is very steep.
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Re: Manix 2 C101PGY2 W/ Maxamet

#71

Post by bearfacedkiller »

I don't believe that these are gonna be sprints so once the initial rush to get them passes they may be available everywhere. At least I hope they are.
-Darby
sal wrote:Knife afi's are pretty far out, steel junky's more so, but "edge junky's" are just nuts. :p
SpyderEdgeForever wrote: Also, do you think a kangaroo would eat a bowl of spagetti with sauce if someone offered it to them?
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Xplorer
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Re: Manix 2 C101PGY2 W/ Maxamet

#72

Post by Xplorer »

I heard from a very reliable source over this past weekend that there will more that just 1 Maxamet folder coming in our near future.. :D :cool:
:spyder: Spyderco fan and collector since 1991. :spyder:
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tripscheck'em
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Re: Manix 2 C101PGY2 W/ Maxamet

#73

Post by tripscheck'em »

bearfacedkiller wrote:
Ankerson's test showed that Maxamet far out performed S110V in edge retention.
Cliff Stamp says "Maxamet is an extreme alloy, for comparison, it is to 10V what S90V is to 420J2"

That's pretty crazy. What causes this massive difference?
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Re: Manix 2 C101PGY2 W/ Maxamet

#74

Post by bdblue »

bearfacedkiller wrote:I don't believe that these are gonna be sprints so once the initial rush to get them passes they may be available everywhere. At least I hope they are.
My local dealer who sells knives in the sooner state says he will have them when they are available but he didn't know when that would be. I hope the final price is not over $150 or I might have to skip it.
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Re: Manix 2 C101PGY2 W/ Maxamet

#75

Post by Chumango »

On those tests Maxamet lasted a lot longer on rope, but S110V lasted longer on cardboard.
RichWentFishing504
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Re: Manix 2 C101PGY2 W/ Maxamet

#76

Post by RichWentFishing504 »

So is this going to be available in a coated blade?

Its not stainless.
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Re: Manix 2 C101PGY2 W/ Maxamet

#77

Post by Philo Beddoe »

tripscheck'em wrote:
Cujobob wrote: but Maxamet should be able to cut for much longer.
Really? s110v has noticeably more carbon and vanadium alone.
Not carbon so much but it does have noticeably more chromium. S110V does have 3% more vanadium but Maxamet comes in with a very large amount(13%)of tungsten while S110V has none.

Maxamet-
Carbon 2.15%
Chromium 4.75 %
Vanadium 6.00 %
Tungsten 13.00 %
Cobalt 10.00%
Sulfur 0.070%
Silicon 0.25%
Manganese 0.30%

S110V-
Carbon 2.8%
Chromium 15.25%
Vanadium 9.0%
Niobium (Columbium) 3.0%
Molybdenum 2.25%
Cobalt 2.50%
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Re: Manix 2 C101PGY2 W/ Maxamet

#78

Post by Philo Beddoe »

Double post..
Skidoosh
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Re: Manix 2 C101PGY2 W/ Maxamet

#79

Post by Skidoosh »

DougC-3 wrote:
Skidoosh wrote:Anyone want to hazard an MSRP?
109.95 -- Maxamet mule
-89.95 -- S110V mule
_20.00

113.95 -- S110V lightweight Manix2
+20.00
133.95 ?? :p
I could do 140 but 240 would be to much. I would go $200 for a Caly 3 in Maxamet (Sal- Please!)
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Surfingringo
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Re: Manix 2 C101PGY2 W/ Maxamet

#80

Post by Surfingringo »

It looks like MSRP will be 269.95 so these should retail most places for 161.97.
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