Steel similar to Super Blue but tougher?

[GarageBoy]

Is there something similar to Super Blue (high apex stability, takes a nice polish) but tougher and maybe a little more corrosion resistant? I've gotten over trying to chase down a super blue sprint (also, worry about it as a true edc, especially on construction sites) at a decent price and was curious if M4 could compare.

[tvenuto]

8cr13MoV?

[3rdGenRigger]

Try M4 or CruWear. More corrosion resistant than a carbon steel but sharpen more easily than a stainless and will take a nice fine edge. I typically stop at the brown sharpmaker rods because I prefer a more coarse edge for most of my cutting tasks (Also construction) but I've sharpened my CruWear Millie with the fine rods a few times and it's crazy how sharp I've been able to get it. I build and maintain communication towers so the tasks my knives see are pretty varied, and my favourite two steels at work thus far are CPM CruWear and HAP40.

[twinboysdad]

Try M4 or CruWear. More corrosion resistant than a carbon steel but sharpen more easily than a stainless and will take a nice fine edge. I typically stop at the brown sharpmaker rods because I prefer a more coarse edge for most of my cutting tasks (Also construction) but I've sharpened my CruWear Millie with the fine rods a few times and it's crazy how sharp I've been able to get it. I build and maintain communication towers so the tasks my knives see are pretty varied, and my favourite two steels at work thus far are CPM CruWear and HAP40.

Agree with every part of this statement.

[dplafoll]

I can vouch for HAP-40 and M4. Both are fantastic.

[Cujobob]

BD1. Lower carbide steel I believe, inexpensive, similar to MBS-26.

[3rdGenRigger]

BD1. Lower carbide steel I believe, inexpensive, similar to MBS-26.

In some ways it's similar, but it's also a full stainless steel (Opposite end of the spectrum from SuperBlue which is a pure carbon steel) and won't perform as well regarding edge holding on a construction site when compared to a tool steel like M4 or HAP40 which are more in between carbon steel and stainless steel. I had a Manix LW in BD1 and it was okay (VG 10 isn't bad, neither is S30V), but they're all harder to sharpen in my experience than SuperBlue, and also CruWear and HAP40. They also don't hold a good working edge as long as M4 and HAP40 in my experience working construction. My favourite full stainless steel to date for work is CTS 204P.

[Blerv]

The trick is finding an aggressively heat treated low carbide SS. Most go high carbon for the folding knife market. AEB-L is that. In theory most Sanviks and AUS6 in or like 440b. It's gotta have like .6-.7C but not much more and not be designed for a gas station knife. Spyderco is weird and may be the only place to dream this up on a non-customs budget.

Thinking for a fixed blade or folder? Jesse Jarosz occasionally sells his fixed blades in AEB-L pretty darn cheap.

[Cujobob]

BD1. Lower carbide steel I believe, inexpensive, similar to MBS-26.

In some ways it's similar, but it's also a full stainless steel (Opposite end of the spectrum from SuperBlue which is a pure carbon steel) and won't perform as well regarding edge holding on a construction site when compared to a tool steel like M4 or HAP40 which are more in between carbon steel and stainless steel. I had a Manix LW in BD1 and it was okay (VG 10 isn't bad, neither is S30V), but they're all harder to sharpen in my experience than SuperBlue, and also CruWear and HAP40. They also don't hold a good working edge as long as M4 and HAP40 in my experience working construction. My favourite full stainless steel to date for work is CTS 204P.

I'm not going to try and debate any of what you said regarding M4/HAP40 holding an edge longer and such. His question had to do with whether there was anything similar to SB that was tougher and had high apex stability. Lower carbide steels have better apex stability. I don't know for certain, but I think BD1 is fairly tough, as well. If he is after something that can be restored easily and thrashed on a bit, BD1 is a good choice. The amount of edge retention needed varies.

There are a few non Spyderco knives I could easily recommend (mostly the fixed blade route) but I believe a folder in BD1 is closest to what you're asking for. M4, M390 variants, and some others would be great choices but will not have the apex stability or ease of maintenance that SuperBlue has.

AEB-L at a high hardness is fantastic stuff, just not readily available in folders at this time. My custom guy for that is Jeremy McCullen (have a few Gavkos as well, but the HT is a bit softer).

[Scroop]

8cr13MoV?

like your style!!

[tripscheck'em]

8cr13mov is your best bet, no other steel is as low carbide as Super Blue in Spyderco's lineup. It is from China, yes, but Spyderco's 8cr13mov is of high quality.

[tvenuto]

like your style!!

8cr13mov is your best bet, no other steel is as low carbide as Super Blue in Spyderco's lineup. It is from China, yes, but Spyderco's 8cr13mov is of high quality.

I had been thinking of starting a thread that explores this very question: why do people laud the carbon steels for their ease of sharpening and toughness, yet dismiss the stainless versions with similar properties as "lower quality" or "passe'," when it would appear that the only drawback of the stainless version is its more precise heat treating requirements, which is not a consideration for the ELU?

*As an aside, I can appreciate the willingness to sacrifice absolute functionality for aesthetic or...artisinal? niche? I'm really not sure what to call it...reasons. In this case: the extra care required and the whole development of patina thing. It's the same reason someone might buy a handmade wallet out of vegetable tanned leather, to watch it age and patina over time, as well as the pleasure in taking care of it, and knowing that you have to take care of it, and that your wallet is unique and special. Essentially the pride of ownership outweighs the the fact that a slim nylon wallet might actually be technically better at the task of carrying your money and cards, less likely to be damaged, and cheaper to boot. This, however, is not the question at hand, and often not the prime reason listed for wanting more of the carbon steels, but rather their other physical properties. But I digress.

My theory is that the lower carbide stainless steels are often used in lower quality knives, and thus people associate them with poor design, geometry, or heat treating, none of which is the fault of the actual steel composition. The more exotic the stainless, the less likelihood that it has been used poorly, and thus the sample results are biased towards positive. This is in addition to the placebo effect of knowing that the material is exotic and believing that it will be better, which is a very strong effect that people seem to believe they alone are immune to.

I previously suggested that Spyderco do a forum knife in a "throwback" stainless, because I think people would be surprised at how it checks all the boxes for the average user: ease of sharpening, corrosion resistance, apex stability (chip resistance), etc. I also just think it would be a cool choice that fans of Spyderco "got" but looked odd to an outside audience. A "secret handshake," if you will.

I decided against starting the thread, however, due to the almost religious-like fervor that those sort of discussions devolve to. To politics and religion I would add diet--and for knife knuts, steel preference--to the list of topics best not broached in polite company. It is good to see that some people see what I'm getting at, though, and have similar observations.

And to be completely and utterly clear, I'm not naysaying anyone's steel preferences. As I mention in the aside, I can appreciate that absolute performance is not always the most important consideration when choosing an item. I'm merely exploring why a particular set of performance characteristics is valued in one case, and viewed as a detriment in another.

[Cujobob]

Any of the commonly used steels, if properly heat treated, is generally only going to be a combination of different traits vs another steel. Poor heat treatment with inexpensive knives leads people to believe 8Cr13MoV is a poor steel, as an example. I won't recommend the steel simply because I don't trust the heat treat to be done well.

Another factor is that most knife collectors are not so much knife users, particularly those who more often boast their opinions online. A lot of people who use knives regularly know nothing about knives and will just buy something cheap from a local store, too.

This is a common problem found in high end audio, psychoacoustics, people believing things based on their expectations of improvement vs actual improvement. Double blind testing is often pushed but most folks aren't really interested in setting up good experiments.

[The Mastiff]

A2, 3V, Cruwear, etc. Not too much higher carbide fractions though as that changes things substantially. 10V can be great but Super Blue it isn't. The real key though is finding one you like and suits your needs. Whatever works for you is the right one.

Joe

[Blerv]

Serrated 8Cr13Mov doesn't seem to have as "perfect" teeth as the other Spyderco knives. That said, between the low-carbon and geometry it would be my go-to recommendation for someone who wants a knife they can beat to death and rarely sharpen.

Recently I picked up a couple SE Tenacious' for my brothers. A site was selling them for like $35 due to a surplus (!). 3.5" of FFG teeth is a serious sight to behold for the price of two cheap pizzas. :eek: :spyder:

[Cujobob]

Serrated 8Cr13Mov doesn't seem to have as "perfect" teeth as the other Spyderco knives. That said, between the low-carbon and geometry it would be my go-to recommendation for someone who wants a knife they can beat to death and rarely sharpen.

Recently I picked up a couple SE Tenacious' for my brothers. A site was selling them for like $35 due to a surplus (!). 3.5" of FFG teeth is a serious sight to behold for the price of two cheap pizzas. :eek: :spyder:

You said all that and all I can think is: you pay too much for pizza.

How is the edge holding on Spyderco's 8Cr13MoV?

I may pick one of those knives up with serrations.

[Blerv]

Serrated 8Cr13Mov doesn't seem to have as "perfect" teeth as the other Spyderco knives. That said, between the low-carbon and geometry it would be my go-to recommendation for someone who wants a knife they can beat to death and rarely sharpen.

Recently I picked up a couple SE Tenacious' for my brothers. A site was selling them for like $35 due to a surplus (!). 3.5" of FFG teeth is a serious sight to behold for the price of two cheap pizzas. :eek: :spyder:

You said all that and all I can think is: you pay too much for pizza.

How is the edge holding on Spyderco's 8Cr13MoV?

I may pick one of those knives up with serrations.

Ha, probably true :p. I shouldn't be eating it anyways.

8Cr in my experience has always been great for PE. Certainly easy to maintain. Never honestly had to sharpen a serrated one. I've touched up VG10 and AUS8 teeth before, more out of boredom than necessity.

My experience with serrated AUS8's been outstanding. For the price I would thrash a SE Byrd or Tenacious/Ambitious and see how it holds up. I can't find it now but someone did a destruction vid of a Byrd Wings G10. After banging the blade and cutting against a steel pole for 7 minutes the serrated edge would still cut rope and leather easily. The PE gave up after about 2 minutes in.

[bearfacedkiller]

H1 is not really anything like Super Blue but it is tougher, more stainless and just as easy to sharpen. Edge retention in PE is a little low but you can beat the snot out of it and it will be easy to touch up. I don't see H1's toughness mentioned often as one of its attributes. I wonder how an H1 chopper would do? I would love to test drive a Rock Salt with a 9-10 inch blade that weighed around 16oz made out of h1 with a plain edge. I like choppers and especially kukri style choppers.

[tripscheck'em]

My theory is that the lower carbide stainless steels are often used in lower quality knives, and thus people associate them with poor design, geometry, or heat treating, none of which is the fault of the actual steel composition.

pretty much this. Kershaw for example has horrible steel in even the Leek and Scallion models, which are their more expensive models. Just garbage, perhaps no harder than low 50's RC, very weak, gummy edge, no edge retention whatsoever.

Its probably better to compare steels within the same brand, because then you get a uniform quality control across the steels.

[GarageBoy]

Doesn't the Leek use super clean Sandvik steels?