Mantra Problem

[ABX2011]

I read about the washer and bearing bumpiness when opening but I had to check the model out for myself. Well it's very nice...except for this problem which kind of ruins the knife. Has anyone solved this problem on their knife? Will Spyderco remedy this on future runs?

[ronT2]

No problems with mine. :D

[Liquid Cobra]

I don't think that helps him Ron.

You could either try to replace the washers. Maybe find some at a hardware store? Or send it in to Spyderco. The former will void your warranty though.

[ABX2011]

No problems with mine. :D

Well I am curious how widespread the problem is. From the original thread it seemed like it was very common.

[SpyderNut]

I have heard of this issue too, although I do not own a Mantra. I imagine Spyderco would be motivated to help you out with getting the washers fixed on your knife. I'd certainly contact Charlynn at Warranty and Repair and ask for guidance. They are good people and will take good care of you.

[timlara]

Hey ABX - My Mantra 2 has this same problem as well to some degree. Mine's not so bad that I would say it ruins the knife as the action on mine is "good enough", but it's certainly not even in the top 10 of the Spydercos I own as far as smoothness. That's a little disappointing in particular for a flipper. If I don't hit the flip lever just right, I definitely get failed flips from time to time where the blade stops about 3/4 of the way out before locking. I guess my hope for the knife was that I would be able to make the blade flip just by pressing the lever hard enough to defeat the detent, but on mine I have to give it a pretty good flick to be sure the blade will have enough speed to travel all the way around.

I've said it many times before, but I am just not a fan of the captive ball bearing washers. Not only do they add unnecessary complexity to the manufacturing process, but in my experience, I have not yet handled a Spyderco with the captive bearing washers that had smoother action than other knives with "regular" washers.

If the Mantra had a pivot like the Sage 3, it would be pretty much perfect, imo. I still really like the design, though, so I carry it all the time.

[MacLaren]

Would the Southard have those captive ball bearing washers as well?...

**Edit**
Do all Spydie flippers use captive ball bearing washers?

[ABX2011]

Hey ABX - My Mantra 2 has this same problem as well to some degree. Mine's not so bad that I would say it ruins the knife as the action on mine is "good enough", but it's certainly not even in the top 10 of the Spydercos I own as far as smoothness. That's a little disappointing in particular for a flipper. If I don't hit the flip lever just right, I definitely get failed flips from time to time where the blade stops about 3/4 of the way out before locking. I guess my hope for the knife was that I would be able to make the blade flip just by pressing the lever hard enough to defeat the detent, but on mine I have to give it a pretty good flick to be sure the blade will have enough speed to travel all the way around.

I've said it many times before, but I am just not a fan of the captive ball bearing washers. Not only do they add unnecessary complexity to the manufacturing process, but in my experience, I have not yet handled a Spyderco with the captive bearing washers that had smoother action than other knives with "regular" washers.

If the Mantra had a pivot like the Sage 3, it would be pretty much perfect, imo. I still really like the design, though, so I carry it all the time.

I hear ya on the complexity. I imagine with bearings being all the rage, Spyderco feels they need to offer them too. My Domino is very smooth. But then again so is my Para 2. I'm not opposed to bearings, it just frustrates me that new products go out the door when they're clearly not right. This reminds me of the Nilakka.

[timlara]

Would the Southard have those captive ball bearing washers as well?...

**Edit**
Do all Spydie flippers use captive ball bearing washers?

As far as I know, they all do. I believe the Southard was the first, and then every Spydie with a Kit Carson flipper tab afterward uses similar (if not identical) captive bearing pivot washers. I certainly have not seen pictures of all of them disassembled, so there could very well be variations / CQI among models, but I think they all have more or less the same system.

My Bento Box Shop Domino sprint flips very well, but my first (original) Domino was so gritty I had to return it. My Mantra 2 is so-so. I think as ABX2011 mentioned, the push to use ball bearings is at least in part a marketing thing, since the bearing washers sound more high tech and in theory should provide an advantage. But in my limited experience so far, the implementation has a lot of room for improvement. Maybe I'm just unlucky, but it seems like pretty high odds that after I've handled every single Spydie flipper model, I've only found a couple of specimens that I thought were smooth enough to flip 100% of the time with no stalls.

[abbazaba]

I read about the washer and bearing bumpiness when opening but I had to check the model out for myself. Well it's very nice...except for this problem which kind of ruins the knife. Has anyone solved this problem on their knife? Will Spyderco remedy this on future runs?

I ended up flipping the washers over on mine. The divots from the bearings being pressed into the washers were not as pronounced on the back side of the washer, so I faced the divots toward the handles, letting the bearings run on the less affected side. It no longer feels as "bumpy", but still doesn't have great deployment IMHO. If you haven't already disassembled the knife and voided the warranty, I would just call Spyderco.

[Larry_Mott]

I read about the washer and bearing bumpiness when opening but I had to check the model out for myself. Well it's very nice...except for this problem which kind of ruins the knife. Has anyone solved this problem on their knife? Will Spyderco remedy this on future runs?

I ended up flipping the washers over on mine. The divots from the bearings being pressed into the washers were not as pronounced on the back side of the washer, so I faced the divots toward the handles, letting the bearings run on the less affected side. It no longer feels as "bumpy", but still doesn't have great deployment IMHO. If you haven't already disassembled the knife and voided the warranty, I would just call Spyderco.

I feel that's what everyone affected should do. Accepting a design fault and/or fixing it yourself by tinkering with it doesn't lead to improvements in QC/material choice the way i see it. As a manufacturer i actually would be happier if my customers pointed it out for me so i could look it over and recti/modify it.

[ABX2011]

I feel that's what everyone affected should do. Accepting a design fault and/or fixing it yourself by tinkering with it doesn't lead to improvements in QC/material choice the way i see it. As a manufacturer i actually would be happier if my customers pointed it out for me so i could look it over and recti/modify it.

I guess what I'm getting at is that maybe the process of introducing a new model needs to be looked at. In general I can't imagine a better knife company than Spyderco with a management team that has a passion for knives and engages with its customers.
However, it would only take a small sample of these knives to see the problem before 1000 more were made wrong. Ultimately these are knives, not cars. They are relatively simple.

[palonej]

I read about the washer and bearing bumpiness when opening but I had to check the model out for myself. Well it's very nice...except for this problem which kind of ruins the knife. Has anyone solved this problem on their knife? Will Spyderco remedy this on future runs?

I ended up flipping the washers over on mine. The divots from the bearings being pressed into the washers were not as pronounced on the back side of the washer, so I faced the divots toward the handles, letting the bearings run on the less affected side. It no longer feels as "bumpy", but still doesn't have great deployment IMHO. If you haven't already disassembled the knife and voided the warranty, I would just call Spyderco.

I feel that's what everyone affected should do. Accepting a design fault and/or fixing it yourself by tinkering with it doesn't lead to improvements in QC/material choice the way i see it. As a manufacturer i actually would be happier if my customers pointed it out for me so i could look it over and recti/modify it.

I couldn't agree more! Charlynn and the warranty dept are excellent to deal with!! Really!!
I have a Southard and a Domino. Both are extremely smooth and deploy every time with authority!! To state that Spydie shouldn't take advantage of new technology is a bit narrow minded IMO.
The Mantra issue doesn't seem to be with the bearings, it seems to be a manufacturing issue and should be brought to Charlynns attention.
SEND THEM IN!!!! I would definitely call before I sent it in also.
No reason to keep a brand new knife with an issue.
Just a suggestion.
Joe

[jimmyjohnjohn]

No problems with mine. :D

Well I am curious how widespread the problem is. From the original thread it seemed like it was very common.

Mine is fine.

[awa54]

It'll be interesting to finally get an answer as to what has gone wrong with this model... My guess is that either the washers are mild steel and need to be hardened steel, or that the titanium scales are too flexible and allow the scale to deform under pressure from the individual balls. (could easily be a combination of the two as well).

Possible solutions might include using thicker or harder washers, switching to needle or roller bearings and possibly making a gen 2 scale that is thicker at the point where the bearings seat.

I can see this being caused by over tightening the pivot, or side load on the blade, both of which shouldn't damage a quality knife, unless done with excessive force.

I guess I'm glad that I don't really want one of these, since with my luck I'd get one with the detented washer/race :P

[jimmyjohnjohn]

I'll add to my "mine is fine" comment. The Mantra is the best Spyderco flipper I own. It flies out of the detent when activated. The Domino is a close second. It also flies out. The Positron works well, no complaints. The Southard is a bit sluggish for me, but that's the only one that doesn't flip sometimes.

I also have several ZT flippers. They all have bearings and flip well. The 0392 is probably the best knife I own. That thing is amazing.

I also have a Hinderer XM-18 which uses washers. It is very smooth and easy to flip, but the knife has to be tightened correctly, pointed in a favorable direction when flipping and has to be clean to work optimally.

[abbazaba]

I read about the washer and bearing bumpiness when opening but I had to check the model out for myself. Well it's very nice...except for this problem which kind of ruins the knife. Has anyone solved this problem on their knife? Will Spyderco remedy this on future runs?

I ended up flipping the washers over on mine. The divots from the bearings being pressed into the washers were not as pronounced on the back side of the washer, so I faced the divots toward the handles, letting the bearings run on the less affected side. It no longer feels as "bumpy", but still doesn't have great deployment IMHO. If you haven't already disassembled the knife and voided the warranty, I would just call Spyderco.

I feel that's what everyone affected should do. Accepting a design fault and/or fixing it yourself by tinkering with it doesn't lead to improvements in QC/material choice the way i see it. As a manufacturer i actually would be happier if my customers pointed it out for me so i could look it over and recti/modify it.

I couldn't agree more! Charlynn and the warranty dept are excellent to deal with!! Really!!
I have a Southard and a Domino. Both are extremely smooth and deploy every time with authority!! To state that Spydie shouldn't take advantage of new technology is a bit narrow minded IMO.
The Mantra issue doesn't seem to be with the bearings, it seems to be a manufacturing issue and should be brought to Charlynns attention.
SEND THEM IN!!!! I would definitely call before I sent it in also.
No reason to keep a brand new knife with an issue.
Just a suggestion.
Joe

I complete agree. I was an early adopter and the first that I know of to confirm the problem by taking it apart. If the information was already out there, I would have gladly sent it in rather than disassemble to confirm my suspicions.

[elena86]

Did they solve the problem yet ? It's been awhile since the Mantras were released.Is there any official feedback ? It should be.