Has the love affair with ZDP-189 ended?

[TomAiello]

I HAD a D-Fly in ZDP... No fan here!!! John

What didn't you like about it?

That's one of my favorites. ZDP is really well suited to the small, precise, uber-sharp knife role.

[Joshua J.]

When I joined this forum, it was a mystical legendary beast of a steel that is comparable to the following that S110V has these days.

You just happened to join this forum at a pivotal point in human history. Not since the introduction of Stainless Steel has so much changed in so little time.

ZDP-189 has probably run its course, and the market seems more accepting of a much greater variety of alloys (or is it more that the people doing the grinding have become numb to the pain?). The HAP40 sprint is pretty much the next step on the same road that started with ZDP-189. Remember that what the knife industry is familiar with in terms of steel types is pretty much just the tip of the iceburg in terms of what's available.
Not that all alloys are beneficial.

I think there was talk of a Police 3 in ZDP-189, but I'm not sure if something like that is in my budget this year (priority to Blurple Military), and I still want some HAP40 (and the Orange handles look awesome) (Does it sound like I'm just buying knives for the handle colour now? No it's for the steel! Really it is!)

I think it's not hard to say that this market is saturated with amazing products.

[SpeedHoles]

Not ended for me. Just less marketed to the masses is what appears to be the case...

Still carry my Stretches, a Delica, and occasionally a Caly 3 and Calypso Jr., all in ZDP-189.
Wish my JD Smith Sprint was also...

I have yet to pick up the Stretch 2, although it is on my radar once tax time comes around.





I'd carry a Rockstead in ZDP-189 as well, if I could afford one, lol. :p

[paladin]

I never noticed it taking twice as long with diamond stones.

EXACTLY my experience!

I can sharpen ZDP-189 easily...yes, I said EASILY with diamond...

I have DMT duosharp xcoarse/coarse and my Sharpmaker rods that I like using file-style with very light pressure.

No muss, no fuss...make it easy on yourself, life's too short for me to mess with natural stones ( unless you find that sort of thing zen & therapeutic )...

My Sprint Caly Jr. out of the box chipped when cutting some PVC deck railing, but after filing out the chips (with diamond rods) into the virgin steel...no problema ever since...

Honestly, I haven't found a steel-- super or otherwise--- that could not be sharpened with a combination of diamond, sandpaper, &/or ceramic implements....

How about you guys? Run into any steel that diamond + cermaic wouldn't grind *better than naturals?
*Meaning costing less initially and taking less time in preparation, actual grind time, & clean up.

[The Deacon]

I never noticed it taking twice as long with diamond stones.

Well, FWIW, I use DMT diamond stones almost exclusively. I'm sure it doesn't take me exactly twice as many strokes to sharpen ZDP-189 as it does to sharpen VG-10, using the same DMT stones for both. I'm equally sure ZDP-189 did not hold an edge exactly twice as long as VG-10. What I am also sure of is that, while ZDP-189 did hold an edge noticeably longer than VG-10, it took me considerably more strokes to sharpen it. That, after having having carried and used a ZDP-189 CF Stretch for over a year, and several different VG-10 versions of the Stretch for considerably longer than that. Any "benefit" I might have seen in terms of edge retention vs sharpening effort, if one existed, was far too slight to overcome the disadvantages of higher cost and lower rust resistance.

[Evil D]

When I joined this forum, it was a mystical legendary beast of a steel that is comparable to the following that S110V has these days.

You just happened to join this forum at a pivotal point in human history. Not since the introduction of Stainless Steel has so much changed in so little time.

ZDP-189 has probably run its course, and the market seems more accepting of a much greater variety of alloys (or is it more that the people doing the grinding have become numb to the pain?). The HAP40 sprint is pretty much the next step on the same road that started with ZDP-189. Remember that what the knife industry is familiar with in terms of steel types is pretty much just the tip of the iceburg in terms of what's available.
Not that all alloys are beneficial.

I think there was talk of a Police 3 in ZDP-189, but I'm not sure if something like that is in my budget this year (priority to Blurple Military), and I still want some HAP40 (and the Orange handles look awesome) (Does it sound like I'm just buying knives for the handle colour now? No it's for the steel! Really it is!)

I think it's not hard to say that this market is saturated with amazing products.

Yeah, there are and certainly will be better steels, but as the saying goes "all good, just different".

[can't freehand]

Has the steel merry-go-round stopped?

ZDP-189 remains unique because it really is a different type of steel. All the vanadium stuff is just variations on a theme.

[can't freehand]

The HAP40 sprint is pretty much the next step on the same road that started with ZDP-189.

How so? HAP40 is just Japanese M4 with a bunch of unnecessary cobalt.


and how is ZDP-189 obsolete? Because marketing says so? The only steels that meaningfully out-perform it are S90V, 10V, S110V and the other obscure 10%-ish Vanadium steels.

[tvenuto]

I think that it could also be a symptom of production complications with some of the Japanese makers. If there are quality control issues arising then you don't exactly throw a more expensive and harder to work with material in the mix. Just throwing out that possibility, because oftentimes when engineering a product, choices that seem puzzling in isolation are made for a good reason on the whole.

I personally don't have any ZDP in the stable. I bought a CF stretch at one point, but sold that due to ergos. I'm kinda with Paul in that I'll take the ease of sharpening and corrosion resistance of VG-10. I can definitely see though, for a knife with a short edge like the ladybug, ZDP really being a boon.

[Jazz]

I still like all mine. I find them the same to sharpen as everything else on my Norton double sided stone. The same. I love the slight patina they get - really nice metal color. As for VG10, what's not to like? I poked a FFG Delica's tip into progressively thicker cans one day, and the tip was fine, and still sharp.

[SpeedHoles]

I think that it could also be a symptom of production complications with some of the Japanese makers. If there are quality control issues arising then you don't exactly throw a more expensive and harder to work with material in the mix. Just throwing out that possibility, because oftentimes when engineering a product, choices that seem puzzling in isolation are made for a good reason on the whole.

Wonder why they start off the first and only Stretch 2 as a ZDP-189 bladed knife, then...?






I think you're beginning to maybe relate Sal's comments on the Firefly in too vague a sense to all Japanese manufactured knives...? Maybe not. But I do see you bring it up a lot recently.

[Blerv]

Has the steel merry-go-round stopped?

ZDP-189 remains unique because it really is a different type of steel. All the vanadium stuff is just variations on a theme.

So true! That and being able to pick up a Dragonfly2 or Lady/Manbug for $40/50 is pretty great.

[sh00ter]

I've never really been "into" knives but have gotten interested since getting a couple of Sypdercos & a Protech Magic for Christmas. I spent some time today reading & watching videos about various steels since I have never had any interest before now.

Here is the most pertinent point...I got a 2016 Spyderco catalogue in the mail yesterday & looked it over carefully today. There are quite a knives in it for this year with ZDP-189 steel in them. I've never seen an older catalogue but based on the posts, maybe they're bringing back ZDP-189 into the lineup more than recently.

A YouTube video I ran across compared various steels used in knives. It was a few years old & didn't include ZDP-189 & a others that are popular now. It did include S30V, S60V,S90V, 154, & others. It compared each steel in six different categories. Toward the end, it showed each steel by itself with ratings in each of those catagories with rating of ? our of 10. I added up the values with each of the S??V & VG-10. The highest possible score would be 60. They totaled:

S30V - 45 out of 60

S60V - 35 our of 60

S90V - 54 out of 60

VG-10 - 27 out of 60


Here's the link if anyone wants to check it out:

https://youtu.be/fJHWefqHULk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[shunsui]

I picked up an older saber grind ZDP Endura in a trade, and it's working great for me.

No complaints.

[bh49]

Interesting discussion. Thank you guys.
I never used ZDP blade for extended period of time so I needed to sharpen. At the beginning of my Spyderco addiction I didn't have sufficient sharpening gears. After I got WE there were no models, which I liked and which had ZDP blades. Of cause there were Calys, but I used to hate uneven laminated lines. Lately I noticed that they started to bother me much less and I am thinking about getting Caly3.5 with ZDP blade, so I really appreciate this discussion.

[Evil D]

I've never really been "into" knives but have gotten interested since getting a couple of Sypdercos & a Protech Magic for Christmas. I spent some time today reading & watching videos about various steels since I have never had any interest before now.

Here is the most pertinent point...I got a 2016 Spyderco catalogue in the mail yesterday & looked it over carefully today. There are quite a knives in it for this year with ZDP-189 steel in them. I've never seen an older catalogue but based on the posts, maybe they're bringing back ZDP-189 into the lineup more than recently.

A YouTube video I ran across compared various steels used in knives. It was a few years old & didn't include ZDP-189 & a others that are popular now. It did include S30V, S60V,S90V, 154, & others. It compared each steel in six different categories. Toward the end, it showed each steel by itself with ratings in each of those catagories with rating of ? our of 10. I added up the values with each of the S??V & VG-10. The highest possible score would be 60. They totaled:

S30V - 45 out of 60

S60V - 35 our of 60

S90V - 54 out of 60

VG-10 - 27 out of 60


Here's the link if anyone wants to check it out:

https://youtu.be/fJHWefqHULk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This could be my lack of general knowledge of other brands but I don't believe many other makers have used ZDP near as much as Spyderco. This means unless you're a Spyderco fan, you may not even be aware of it. By comparison S30V is far more common.

[TomAiello]

I have an Al Mar in ZDP. It's pretty nice.

[SpeedHoles]

This could be my lack of general knowledge of other brands but I don't believe many other makers have used ZDP near as much as Spyderco. This means unless you're a Spyderco fan, you may not even be aware of it. By comparison S30V is far more common.

Yeah, and many other brands who do use ZDP-189 are ten-fold more expensive!!

I feel many other people take this offering and value from Spyderco for granted and have simply started to look at other steels just because the new flash has worn off for them and marketing is putting some new flavor in their mouths...

I even still hear Eric (in that godfathers of Spyderco vid) and have read replies from Sal where they both seemingly unconciously refer to ZDP-189 when they are bringing up high end steels to compare with...
Anyone else remember the April fools post a year or two ago?

[Bill1170]

I have both a Delica and a blue FRN Stretch in ZDP. Both have been modified to be full convex with a zero edge. I like ZDP above all my other stainless steels for its ability to hold a high sharpness fine edge at low bevel angles. Staining hasn't been a problem, but I'm not out camping, either. It resists staining better than my 52100 Kramer santoku.

[paladin]

This could be my lack of general knowledge of other brands but I don't believe many other makers have used ZDP near as much as Spyderco. This means unless you're a Spyderco fan, you may not even be aware of it. By comparison S30V is far more common.

I think the Caly Jr. was the first use of ZDP in a production knife large scale....I remember it was a big deal and I was very excited--- I bought 2 just in case I wore the first one out...yeah right :rolleyes: