What makes a good Fillet Knife?

[Donut]

I was looking to purchase a good fillet knife, so I was trying to figure out what makes a good fillet knife.

Things that affect usability of normal knives.
-Steel
-Corrosion resistance
-Ergonomics
-How it carries
-The ability of the knife to
-Edge angles, blade profile, blade grind
-Blade thickness

Additional things that affect usability of a fillet knife.
-Flexibility of the blade
-Ability to pierce

Does the Spyderco Catcherman do these tasks well? Was it designed to be a fillet knife at all or just a fishing knife that could fillet if you needed it to?

If a modern day Catcherman was released, with H1, would a Saber ground blade hinder the performance?

Would a serrated blade stop it from being a good Fillet knife? Would it be possible to make one with a shallow serrated edge?


I would like to keep this on the topic of what makes a good Fillet Knife, but not limit discussion about the Catcherman.

What different methods are there to fillet a fish? What features work and don't work with these methods?

[aesmith]

Funny I was thinking this myself. When I used to fillet a lot of fish I found I worked better without a sharp tip or even a particularly sharp point. I used a cheap "Prestige" brand kitchen knife with a springy blade of a bit over 6" and a round tip. The round point and relatively blunt edge meant it would follow the bone rather than digging in. Some time I must have lost that knife because I can't find it, nor even remember when I last used it.

[swigert]

I use my southfork. It works wonders

[Phil Wilson]

I like a blade with some flex so as to have a better feel as the knife slides over the back bone. It also helps along with the flex to have some extra length so that you have some knuckle clearance from the cutting board on smaller fish. A narrow tip allows you to cut behind the head and rotate the blade for a pushing cut toward the tail. A good length for smaller fresh water “pan” fish is about 6.5-7 inches and for larger saltwater fish about 8.5 inches. A 4 to 7 inch blade can work fine even on larger fish, just cut down the lateral line and fillet out the loins both ways. I have done this many times with the South Fork and also the smaller “Sprig”. The Catcherman has the ideal blade shape for doing this as well. Also important for a fillet knife is a handle that fits and will limit slipping when things get wet and slimy. Stain resistance is essential IMHO for a fillet knife. Sooner or later even if you are meticulous that knife is going to be neglected and especially around salt water is going to be a sad story. A good stain resistant blade will eliminate much of that concern. There are a lot of good stainless grades that will work. The Sandvik grades have been used for a long time in production fillet knives. I would try MBS 26 if I could get it. 440C is another and CPM S30V and CPM 154 are very good choices. CPM S90V as noted here in the South Fork has high wear and very good stain resistance. I made a lot of fillet knives with CPM S90V in the past and still have a few in my kit. I just made a test knife (bait and general use) with Carpenter BD1N and think it has good potential for the application. I will be using it on the boat in salt water this year and that will tell the tale on corrosion resistance. A thin edge is best to glide through the work and is easy to touch up if it looses some bite. Fillet knives are handy for boning out game meat and are one of the first knives I reach for in the kitchen. I love to fillet out a grapefruit. Phil

[Surfingringo]

Hey Brian, that can be a very simple or a complicated question depending on how OCD you want to get about it. :) I would say the answer depends on what type of fish you are cleaning and what your technique is. Personally, I prefer a longer flexible fillet knife when cleaning smaller fish like bass and perch. As Phil mentioned, the flex will help keep the knuckles off the board when cleaning and skinning.

On larger fish I tend to prefer a bit shorter blade because I go about the work a different way. I work kind of like Phil was describing. I work from the dorsal side to the midline, then I do the same thing from the pectoral side. then the fillet is only connected at the vertebrae. From there I just life and cut the fillet free from the spine. I like filleting this way on larger fish because it allows me to stay tighter to the rib line and waste less meat. So how does that affect my choice of knife? Well, when i'm working this way I am doing the majority of the work with the last 2-3 inches of the tip. I find that if i am using too long of a fillet knife (pretty much anything over 7") then it is harder to control the tip and I lose some of the precision that I am looking for.

Then, you have skinning. This is where a longer blade really comes in handy. it allows you to lift the handle while still keeping most of the blade flat on the cutting surface. My ideal setup is to have two knives at the table. One 5-6" blade and one 7-8" blade.

As far as the Catcherman, though I have never had a chance to use one, I would think it would make a handy fillet knife based on the specs. The one area where it might not be ideal is skinning as you might end up putting too much force on the pivot area over time. But for a pocketable option I think the catcherman is a total winner!

[Surfingringo]

Here are some pictures from this morning that will hopefully help illustrate the technique I was describing. They also illustrate my new favorite tool for this work. One thing I didn't mention in my last post is when it comes to choosing a knife, some of it depends on whether you are going for speed or precision. I feel like I can work a faster style with a larger knife but I end up leaving more meat on the bone than I am comfortable with. I prefer to take my time and try to get em nice and clean. This corvina probably took me a good 5 minutes. A guy in a hurry with a 9" fillet could have finished it in under 90 seconds...but his carcass wouldn't look like mine. Just depends on what you're going for.








And in case anybody cares what he looked like before I carved him up...

[Ray Allen]

Pearls of wisdom from two of the best!
Thanks...

[PayneTrain]

Wow Gringo, those bones are licked clean! I actually learned to filet differently than you and Phil, though now I'm reconsidering my methods.

I've always used a 8" Dexter Russell, which is nice and flexible. That is definitely a trait I need in a filet knife. My last fish I tried to do with my 6" Darrin Sanders boning knife, which is thin but not thin enough to be very flexible. The shape worked well, but without that flex I left a lot of meat on the bone. I'm sure my technique was a little rusty as well because from what I've witnessed, when you're good you can filet with just about anything.

[Surfingringo]

Wow Gringo, those bones are licked clean! I actually learned to filet differently than you and Phil, though now I'm reconsidering my methods.

I've always used a 8" Dexter Russell, which is nice and flexible. That is definitely a trait I need in a filet knife. My last fish I tried to do with my 6" Darrin Sanders boning knife, which is thin but not thin enough to be very flexible. The shape worked well, but without that flex I left a lot of meat on the bone. I'm sure my technique was a little rusty as well because from what I've witnessed, when you're good you can filet with just about anything.

Hey PT, every fish is different. I find Corvina is actually a bit tricky to clean. Notice that the rib bones are quite large and far apart and they are not very long. It can be tricky to find and stay on the rib line but if you do you can get them exceptionally clean. The meat peels away cleanly and because of the spacing you don't even leave much meat in between the ribs. Its one of the fish where I find a shorter blade can be easier to manage.

Curious...How do you typically fillet?

[swigert]

Great answers by Phil and Lance here. Love it.

[PayneTrain]

I was taught to start at the dorsal side and using multiple continuous fluid cuts, work your way to the belly. The first cut breaks the skin, the second one hits the spine, the third goes over the spine, the fourth finishes the job. Now I'm not as good as my teachers, especially a guy who may very well be Popeye himself, but even I have done a pretty good job with this method. I've done a lot of bluefish, but also stripers, black sea bass (mm mmm, my favorite), and blackfish. They're all pretty much the same inside as far as I can tell, and with these fish having a flexible blade really helps follow the ribs and bend over the spine. I know we have some tricky ones like shad, which is apparently a lost art around here to filet, and I've always hoped to learn before old Gordy floats off to heaven on a cloud of cigarette smoke. I imagine that requires a small knife, but I would be surprised if that old salt really gave a hoot what he was using, as long as it's sharp.

[Phil Wilson]

SGringo, nice job on the Corvina. Looks like what we call White Sea Bass here on the Pacific coast. Every one has a bit different technique and is interesting to hear and see the variations. I fillet a lot of salmon during the season. They are not so tough as some and you can just cut behind the gills rotate and push all the way through, bones and all. A small bit is left behind in the hollow above and below the spine bone. With a flexible fillet you can peel that right out and that is sashimi. Get out the soy sauce and wasabi! Medium flex seems to work best overall for a lot of different fish. I define medium as a 30 degree bend half way back from the tip, with about 20 lbs down force against a board. Phil

[Donut]

I imagine that requires a small knife, but I would be surprised if that old salt really gave a hoot what he was using, as long as it's sharp.

It would be pretty interesting to see if he could do it with a dragonfly salt.

[Donut]

Lance, did you ever consider doing a "how to fillet" video on youtube?

[Donut]

I would try MBS 26 if I could get it.

That would be really interesting to see happen!

[Surfingringo]

Lance, did you ever consider doing a "how to fillet" video on youtube?

I did consider it but I'm too lazy. There are lots of how to fillet videos there already and, truth is, I'm no better than most of those guys and not as good as some. The world will carry on just fine without my contribution there I reckon. :D

edit: Not to mention, I cringe at the sound of my recorded voice!

[PayneTrain]

It would be pretty interesting to see if he could do it with a dragonfly salt.

I wouldn't be surprised. Shad (American Shad I believe is the eatin' kind, kind of a rarity around here with a real short season) is a smaller fish. Each side only weighs about half a pound. The filets are sort of in two parts, like there is a set of ribs or something in the middle of the filet that have to be worked around and if you're not good, you'll end up with four pieces instead of two. Maybe it's kind of like tuna, I know those are usually done in four "loins" or something. You fishermen know what I mean. I dunno, I stick to the easy fish and if it's too much work like porgy, I just cook it whole. :)

Fun thread! Definitely motivating me to get out on the water this weekend.

Actually now that I think about it, I think shad filets are in three parts. Maybe four! I dunno, they're definitely a lotta work.

[JD Spydo]

Well Donut I think you already know what model I"m going to recommend to you :D Yes the Catcherman is my first pic but there is a company called "Knives Of Alaska" that has some great outdoor blades. A good buddy of mine has one of their fillet knives and it is a nice fixed blade unit and I'm sorry to say that I don't remember what blade steel it has but it sure holds an edge nicely.

Now if you do get a Catcherman try to get one of the H-1 models with the nuclear green handle. It's really versatile but my all time favorite variant of the Catcherman is the older AUS-8 model with the thicker blade>> and I have the fully serrated version and it has a great serration pattern which makes for very easy work.

But do check out that Knives Of Alaska line up. That Phil Wilson model really looks great>> if and when Spyderco gets that one in the main line up I sure hope that they will have it available in Spyderedge :cool: hint, hint :D

[Donut]

Is this the one? http://www.diggsoutdoors.com/knives-of- ... o-set.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

You mean the Phil Wilson Surfingringo? :)

[sal]

I've been testing one of Phil's filet knives since January. Excellent.

sal