Japanese Factory Disappointment.

[mastiff]

I've been debating posting this for the last few hours. I really love my Spyderco folders, in two months and one week I've went from none to 8 folders and the Sharpmaker with another Manix 2 Lightweight on the way. I'd say I'm pretty committed to the brand. That being said, I'm starting to wonder if a QC problem exists with the Japanese factories?

I have Spydies from the USA, Taiwan, China, and Japan. All of the USA Spydies have been wonderful as far as fit and finish. The one I have from Taiwan did take some initial break in, but it's about as close to perfection as I can judge for something that isn't hand built. The one from China is very nice, it exceeded my expectations by a lot. The Japanese made folders have been pretty bad when compared to the others.

Here's a pic of them all (without the third Manix of course, it's still in the mail),


I have 3 Spydies from Japan, a Delica 4, a Stretch, and now a Caly 3.5 in VG-10. The Delica 4 is the only one that came in great functioning order. The Stretch felt like its washers were made from 80 grit sandpaper. I probably opened and closed it a few hundred times, no change. I have an air compressor that goes up to 125 psi, that didn't work. Oiling it to the point of being soaked then another blast of 125 psi didn't work either. Soap and hot water, another blast of air, then oil didn't work. Frustrated, I just took it apart. I'm a mechanic so taking a folding knife apart and putting it back together isn't exactly hard. So what was the problem? It looked as if someone sprinkled fine dirt into the pivot, between the washers, and against the liners. I cleaned all of it out but the damage had been done, it's around 220 grit now. At the time I figured "Oh well, it happens. I'll just deal with it.".

Today my Caly 3.5 VG-10 showed up, it looked great. Opening it was another story. I know it doesn't have washers, I did my home work. When looking inside I could see what looked like thick hair, the action and lock were very gritty. Before trying the "just open and close it a bunch of times and it will get smoother" I got a piece of that "hair" out with a toothpick. I'm pretty sure it was G-10. With only one screw to remove I decided I'd take it apart and do the whole air and oil thing before I got the G-10 shavings worked into the action and lock real good. I blew the handle and lock out with my air compressor and moved onto the blade. While cleaning the grit out of the pivot hole and wiping the tang off I noticed what looked like a chip? It's gritty and textured, it doesn't look like it was done during the process of grinding the blade. Except for that, the Caly 3.5 works perfect now. I'm glad I got it, but this is a common theme when dealing with Caly 3.5s. Below is a pick of the chip on the left hand side of the blade tang just below the pivot (I just noticed it's actually 2 chips):



I know that I've probably voided the warranty on those two, it's alright. I have 6 more with a 7th on the way that are still covered. I can't see spending another $10 to $20 sending them back to the dealer just to get another gritty folder. If they were my first two then I don't know if I would've been so excited about Spyderco. Both are recommended as good for being your first Spyderco, they were on my list as a possible first for sure. I've noticed a lot of posts about Japanese folders having problems recently. If I hadn't seen a post just days ago about the same problem with a Caly 3.5 I might have chalked it up to bad luck. It's not just 1 or 2 posts though, it's many. It seems to happen with the ZDP-189 versions as well. It was also with 2 out of 3 Japanese Spydies that I bought.

I still love my Spyderco folders. They are the best hands down, nothing anybody else makes comes anywhere close for me. Having a $40 Chinese made folder show up in better working condition than a Stretch that I paid $80 for is very puzzling. Having a $118 Caly 3.5 show up that way is down right disheartening. I'd be really perturbed if I had ordered the Caly 3.5 in ZDP for $160-$170.

This is by no means a hate thread, I don't like to put that disclaimer in there but sometimes forums get a little weird. I just felt this should be brought to someones attention. I'd rather say something than not as it's probably an easy fix. Besides, more happy customers=more money=more R&D=more new designs=more awesome Spyderco folders for me!

[noseoil]

It sounds like a major problem with QC procedures at the factory(S) to me. My Japan spydies are good ones, without any issues at all. I think you should contact Sal & let him know what you've found, as he would most certainly want to be in this loop. I know he's dedicated to value & quality and cares for his customers. You might consider shipping them back to the factory in Colorado for their inspection.

Something doesn't sound right with this report, at least from my experience with the products. Not saying anything about your take on things, just not what I would expect from Japan in general with their normal high standards for meticulous work, fit & finish....

[v8r]

Mastif,
I have to admit the Japanese made Spydies are my least favorite as well. I have owned lots of Spyderco knives over the years and of the ones that had a problem they were mostly made in Japan. Don't get me wrong they were all functional, but when I can go to the gas station and buy a knife for five bucks with better fit and finish .....it's kinda sad.
I just have a new rule, if the knife is made in Japan I have to inspect it before I purchase it. This takes going to a "Brick and Mortar" store and paying more, but at least I will get a knife that will better meet my expectations.
On a positive note pretty much all the Taiwan made Spydies that I have owned are dang near perfect. It may be just my luck, but all of them thus far have been dang near as perfect as you can make a production knife, and at times been better than most customs I have seen.

[razorsharp]

I kind of agree with the fit a d finish from Japan.... It's disappointing in comparison to the other factories.... To the point I may not end up buying the much anticipated ROC. Ive had to refinish every Japanese spyderco I have had. Be it fixing grit or play, or even uneven satin finishes. ( it looks horrible when the satin finish changes direction mid-blade)

[thelock]

Yeah the Japanese factory lacks in quality compared to the others, I think Spyderco only sticks with them because they don't sell their steels to protect the production in Japan and a little bit because of pride too since the first Spyderco came from Japan. I think Spyderco should put a little bit more pressure on the Japanese makers!

[The Mastiff]

Yeah the Japanese factory lacks in quality compared to the others, I think Spyderco only sticks with them because they don't sell their steels to protect the production in Japan and a little bit because of pride too since the first Spyderco came from Japan. I think Spyderco should put a little bit more pressure on the Japanese makers!

Pretty Harsh IMO. I still have a largish box of Japanese made Spyderco's from 2014 back to 92 when I began this streak. They are what they are. Most of mine are near enough to perfect out of the box to keep me happy. I know my standards differ from others but these are nice knives. I clean any gun or knife, or whatever other tool I get before I use it and always have. Finding something hidden in the lock wouldn't qualify as a defect in my mind. Just as an edge isn't going to be perfect.

If I want CNC controlled precision I'll get it and do at times. Other times I want a knife made with human hands with the possible imperfections that come with that.

I'm more worried about how the surfaces wear in as they age because I keep them forever mostly. Stuff like that is what I look at. I can get eye perfect stuff if that's what I want. Spyderco has pretty much evolved into a company that offers something for everyone. My fear is them pricing themselves out of my range in looking at the newer models being considered.

No offense meant to anybody here including the other mastiff who began this thread. That's what the forum is for after all.

Joe

[paladin]

The only problem I had from Japan makers was a gritty Caly 3.5 pivot...

And I got quite a few Seki City, et. al. Japanese models...all top drawer :)

Guess I'm lucky that way...

I have heard other blips on the radar like what you've noticed, however....

Maybe just not to the extent you've experienced :o

It gets better, trust me :cool:

[kennethsime]

All of my Seki folders have been fantastic out of the box.

[MacLaren]

I think Taichung can really spoil a man too.....

[ABX2011]

I've been disappointed with Japan-made Spydercos of the past couple years. I'm not very interested in new offerings from those factories unless I get a great deal on them. I'm also more careful to read many reviews and watch youtube videos before purchasing.

[tvenuto]

Were any of these bought from Amazon? I ask because I've noticed that these sorts of QC issues are more common from Amazon buys. My theory is that certain amazon dealers will just restock a knife that was returned for QC issues. Eventually someone will keep it, right?

That said, it sucks to loose the QC lottery, and I'd probably fuss if 2 of my first 8 spydies were in this condition. 3 of my first 4 spydies are Seki made and they all came in great working condition. I have since bought more, and I have no qualms buying future ones. Mac I right, though, Taichung (and in my opinion Golden as well) can certainly spoil you with their phenomenal quality.

[FCM415]

If pressed to choose, I would admit that the US and Taiwan models have better finish but Im very happy with my Japanese models. Most of my users that I carry and cut with all day are the Japanese ones. While it isn't perfect, it is faaaaar from being bad.

Two models of note for me was my first ZDP Stretch which had the same symptoms as OP, and a CF ZDP Caly 3.5 that had a lockbar sink too far into the lockwell. I got a new 3.5 replacement from warranty. The Stretch I sold but I have several other Stretches anyway. Didn't sell it because of the gritty action though.

[akaAK]

Near perfection costs a lot of money and perfection is impossible. Each person is going to have a level of expectation and sometimes those expectations can't be met. I think this is a good example of an OP who has an issue and is presenting it in a reasonable way, I would think that this is already on the radar at spyderco.

Most of my SEKI spydies have or have had some minor (to me at least) issues regarding fit and finish. That being said they are among my favourite spyderco's. Maybe the imperfections add a little bit of soul.

[JD Spydo]

The last Japanese made Spyder I got was another C-60 Sprint Ayoob with the G-10 handle and all three of the Ayoobs I own are just beautiful and the VG-10 steel in them takes a great razor edge. I've only bought one other Japan made Spyder in the past 6 months and fortunately I haven't had the problems some of you guys speak of.

When I've ever had any kind of problem with any Spyder I've ever gotten new or even in a trade with someone the Spyderco Warranty & Repair department has treated me with the utmost of respect and made it right every time.

I'm sure Spyderco is concerned about all your complaints and I have no doubt they want to correct anything that is wrong so it's good we can talk about this in an open forum.

About a year ago I snagged another LUM Tanto Folder in trade and I sure didn't find anything wrong with it either. But in all fairness those were two Sprint models and I'm wondering if that does indeed make a difference. I've always had a special place in my heart for the GOLDEN, Colorado USA Earth Spyders but the Japan made ones do take a very close second in my ratings.

[gbelleh]

I have many Spydies from many different makers, and almost all are excellent. I've had a few Japanese knives with some minor fit and finish issues. But a very low percentage. Based on comments here, it would seem Japan has a higher rate of reported issues. Sal even mentioned that the Roc was delayed due to QC concerns, so I'm sure they're trying to address any problems.

[Blerv]

I expect volume for Japan to be far higher than Taichung and somewhat higher than Golden.

While volume tends to help with QC (more time to learn and execute) and certainly does with pricing you also have a greater number of employees with varying levels of performance. With a higher number of products on the market, even if the flawed percentage if equivalent/lower to other makers, that's a greater number of knives being criticized with a varying degree of expectations. As we know, negative press spreads quicker than positive press.

In my experience my Seki knives have almost all been excellent. I've had less Taichung knives with flaws but I've only bought about 5% as many. That's less dice to toss.

[bh49]

Only once I had a problem with Japanese made Spyderco. My first Superhawk was missing chunk of steel on the spine. A dealer replaced it. Twice I had Kopas with minor imperfections. I bought four Caly3.5 and at least four Caly3. None of them had gritty action. May be I was just lucky so far. I bought four Caly3.5 and at least four Caly3. None of them had gritty action.

[bh49]

Based on comments here, it would seem Japan has a higher rate of reported issues. Sal even mentioned that the Roc was delayed due to QC concerns, so I'm sure they're trying to address any problems.

I also read at least twice Sal commenting about quality issues at Moki.

[apollo]

In my eyes the seki factorys are falling a little behind because they have noy improved like all the others did. They can still make fine knives.
In numbers i think seki is not making more faulty knives then in the past. But i do have to say the things wrong with the knives that have problems are in my eyes getting worse. My kiwi 4 for example .In golden that knife would have ended in the seconds sale but never ever sold as new... Also at the amsterdam meet Sal himself did mention there is a problem going on with an important seki maker. But Spyderco as always are helping them overcome this in ways you can not understand in these years of finance troubles. So another tumbs up for Sal and crew for such great efford to make the knifeworld better d helping those in need thx Spyderco! So be patient guys in time these things will al be in the past again :)

[Tdhurl1103]

This thread really has me freaking out a bit. My wife just dropped $140 on a Double Bevel for me as part of our 20th wedding anniversary. She has it at home while I am in Virginia. She will be bringing the knife to me next month.

I hope its not sitting in the box all gritty, waiting for me to be disappointed in it. Holy Crap!!!