Spyderco Forums

First of all, let me be clear. I am not putting down anyone's personal health nor religious views about what foods they choose to eat or not eat. If you want to abstain from any food, or if you want to eat any food, you have my blessing.

My question is basic enough: I have read all of these different websites, made by people from many different backgrounds, attacking the consumption of pork and pork products such as ham, bacon, sausage, etc. I would like you all, my friends here on the forum, to give me some feedback on this.

From what I can tell, ANY meat can be good or bad for you, depending on how it is prepared, how it is raised/its enviroment, and other factors. Beef and chicken can contain parasites as well as pork, and if you cook it through and are careful with it, you don't have to worry.

Some of these websites are claiming pork is higher than other meats in parasites and bugs and pigs are natural garbage disposals, and some of the same arguments are used against eating shellfish and stuff like lobsters and crabs because these animals scour for their food on the seafloor. But I have seen people get badly sick from improperly prepared plant based diets, as well as other meats as well. So again, it seems to me at least that it is not any particular animal flesh that is somehow "extra poison" but how it is grown, raised, and prepared. I welcome all feedback on this.

A basic enough question: "should we eat pork?" but one that can be addressed in many ways:

-Is pork more or less likely to contain pathogens/parasites than other meats?
-Is the way pork is cured (the things added in the process) problematic for general health?
-Is the fat composition resulting from the diet of the pig causing health issues?
-Are pigs raised for human consumption being treated poorly, something that pork consumption supports?

Again, for any one of these questions we could write a book (and many have), so it's a hard thing to answer here. I do have one single ground-rule for discussing anything diet related:

"Healthy (or healthful)" is not an attribute which ANY food possesses. Any food is just one component in your overall diet, the composition of which either supports or does not support your health and fitness goals.

For instance, almost everyone would consider spinach "healthy." However, if you eat 100% spinach, you will die.

So I guess my question to you would be which of the listed questions concerns you the most, I'd be happy to tell you which ones concern me the most, but we can go from there. You hit the nail on the head with "how it's raised," though, as that addresses many of the listed questions.

SpyderEdgeForever wrote:First of all, let me be clear. I am not putting down anyone's personal health nor religious views about what foods they choose to eat or not eat. If you want to abstain from any food, or if you want to eat any food, you have my blessing.

My question is basic enough: I have read all of these different websites, made by people from many different backgrounds, attacking the consumption of pork and pork products such as ham, bacon, sausage, etc. I would like you all, my friends here on the forum, to give me some feedback on this.

From what I can tell, ANY meat can be good or bad for you, depending on how it is prepared, how it is raised/its enviroment, and other factors. Beef and chicken can contain parasites as well as pork, and if you cook it through and are careful with it, you don't have to worry.

Some of these websites are claiming pork is higher than other meats in parasites and bugs and pigs are natural garbage disposals, and some of the same arguments are used against eating shellfish and stuff like lobsters and crabs because these animals scour for their food on the seafloor. But I have seen people get badly sick from improperly prepared plant based diets, as well as other meats as well. So again, it seems to me at least that it is not any particular animal flesh that is somehow "extra poison" but how it is grown, raised, and prepared. I welcome all feedback on this.

You seem to already know the answer to your question:

SpyderEdgeForever wrote:From what I can tell, ANY meat can be good or bad for you, depending on how it is prepared, how it is raised/its enviroment, and other factors. Beef and chicken can contain parasites as well as pork, and if you cook it through and are careful with it, you don't have to worry.

I can't think of anything else to add, except perhaps "don't believe everything you read".

Eating a lot of ham, bacon, or sausage can be unhealthy for folks that already have genetic issues caused by high amounts of sodium. For the rest of us, eating properly prepared pork products probably isn't any more harmful than eating chicken or beef.

The concept of pork and shellfish as unclean animals being unfit for consumption seems to come from passages in the Bible. Same with the claim they carry so many diseases and parasites.

Like Paul was saying earlier, don't believe everything you read.

There is a reason that the old testament of the Bible says to not eat port. I'm not sure exactly why or if the scientific reasons are valid today.

My grandparents ate port very frequently and my grandfather lived to 94. One of the complaints about people eating pork is the fat content, but I think heredity has something to do with whether this affects a person or not.

bdblue wrote:There is a reason that the old testament of the Bible says to not eat port. I'm not sure exactly why or if the scientific reasons are valid today.

My grandparents ate port very frequently and my grandfather lived to 94. One of the complaints about people eating pork is the fat content, but I think heredity has something to do with whether this affects a person or not.

The likely reason for this is that pigs are more anatomically similar to humans than are other livestock. Thus, it would stand to reason that they would develop microbia that could be harmful to humans sooner than the others. Food taboos are an interesting subject. The Norse who migrated to Greenland actually all starved to death, while living on a coast, and yet refrained from eating any fish (which were available).

Fat, like sodium, is necessary for survival. In the recent past it was demonized, but I think we're starting to finally get over that moronic fixation.

Thank you for the replies. I would say my main concern would be the issue of parasites. One of these websites attacking pork eating seemed to claim that pork somehow contains more parasites than other meats, and, parasites that can survive cooking, and from there the author went on to claim (without alot of medical science to back it up) that "most Americans who eat pork have these parasites in their bodies and don't even know it". But proper handling and cooking, as you pointed out, would seem to be the answer to that.

Regarding fat, you made a great point, tvenuto. The "fat scare" can go overboard to large proportions. Humans need fat in a balanced diet.

SpyderEdgeForever wrote:Thank you for the replies. I would say my main concern would be the issue of parasites. One of these websites attacking pork eating seemed to claim that pork somehow contains more parasites than other meats, and, parasites that can survive cooking, and from there the author went on to claim (without alot of medical science to back it up) that "most Americans who eat pork have these parasites in their bodies and don't even know it". But proper handling and cooking, as you pointed out, would seem to be the answer to that.

Regarding fat, you made a great point, tvenuto. The "fat scare" can go overboard to large proportions. Humans need fat in a balanced diet.

Interesting. Did you happen to get this information from a forwarded email, perhaps from an aunt or cousin, that contained many different font sizes and colors? This sounds like that sort of information.

Yes, the fat scare largely resulted in the creation of many packaged foods boasting "low fat!" Of course, these packaged foods turned out to be nearly 100% carbohydrate, and are a contributing factor to the diabetic epidemic we currently find ourselves in.

Actually it was exactly that form, it was one of those "alert! send this to other people concerned about healthy eating" sorts of emails, and then I went and found different websites that basically seemed to be pasting the same info, some claimed "Medical doctors stand by this information".

Regarding the fat scare, a friend of mine told me how his sister jumped on that bandwagon and would only and strictly eat low fat, fat free, and other foods, including diet sodas (literally gallons of the stuff per month!) and was very proud of herself; he said she gained MORE WEIGHT than when she had been eating whole milk and whole cheeses and regular drinks like fruit juice and even a little regular sugar soda now and then.

I have been giving up sodas and colas because of their negative health effects, every now and then I admit, I do like to drink Ginger Ale, the kind that has real ginger in it, or so it claims, but another reason I no longer drink colas is the Phosphoric Acid: I read that stuff over time can eat away at the bones.

Pork is high in fat and sodium. It also can be dangerous if not cooked/cleaned properly, just like any meat. Some people have religious or personal problem with eating certain (or all) meats.

You can't compare it to soda or candy. You also can't compare it to tobacco, hard liquor, or recreational narcotics.

As a species our dietary problems stem from abuse and overindulgence. Well balanced and natural foods have fed mankind properly since it's creation/evolution. Our bodies are very effective at filtering toxins but too much will overwhelm anyone. Whether that is salt, fat, sugar, GMO, chemicals, lead, or cyanide.

Blerv wrote:Pork is high in fat and sodium. It also can be dangerous if not cooked/cleaned properly, just like any meat

Not necessarily true. You can buy lean cuts of pork, and fatty cuts of beef. Same with sodium, the only sodium in raw pork is whatever is in the tissues of any land mammal. Bacon and cooked ham would be higher, although nowadays there are "reduced sodium" versions of both. Corned beef, salted fish, and jerky are also high in sodium. Funny thing is that, unlike beef, fish, and shellfish, I can't recall anyone ever claiming to eat raw pork or even eating it "bloody" rare, the way many claim to prefer their beef.

Blerv wrote:Pork is high in fat and sodium. It also can be dangerous if not cooked/cleaned properly, just like any meat. Some people have religious or personal problem with eating certain (or all) meats.

You can't compare it to soda or candy. You also can't compare it to tobacco, hard liquor, or recreational narcotics.

As a species our dietary problems stem from abuse and overindulgence. Well balanced and natural foods have fed mankind properly since it's creation/evolution. Our bodies are very effective at filtering toxins but too much will overwhelm anyone. Whether that is salt, fat, sugar, GMO, chemicals, lead, or cyanide.

Deacon already addressed your first point.

I would argue that you could add "misinformation" to the list of dietary problem causes, as we are often following "health advice" to our own peril.

I personally hate the word "toxin" as it lacks any sort of rigor in the way it's often used. In your list of "toxins" there are several things you will die without consuming, so they could hardly be called "toxic" in the absolute sense, and they are not "filtered out" but rather used in necessary chemical processes. You can die from over-consumption of pure water, but would anyone call water a "toxin?"

SpyderEdgeForever wrote:

tvenuto wrote:Interesting. Did you happen to get this information from a forwarded email, perhaps from an aunt or cousin, that contained many different font sizes and colors? This sounds like that sort of information.

Actually it was exactly that form, it was one of those "alert! send this to other people concerned about healthy eating" sorts of emails, and then I went and found different websites that basically seemed to be pasting the same info, some claimed "Medical doctors stand by this information".

All in moderation. It's really not very complicated.

Evil D wrote:All in moderation. It's really not very complicated.

True enough, but simple and easy aren't always the same thing. How to avoid credit card debt? Spend less than you make, dummy! People fall in to diet (diet in the broad sense = what you eat) traps as easily as they fall into financial traps.

tvenuto wrote:I personally hate the word "toxin" as it lacks any sort of rigor in the way it's often used. In your list of "toxins" there are several things you will die without consuming, so they could hardly be called "toxic" in the absolute sense, and they are not "filtered out" but rather used in necessary chemical processes. You can die from over-consumption of pure water, but would anyone call water a "toxin?"

I personally don't "hate" any word because it's just a combination of letters that represents a fairly specific thing. I wouldn't even say I "hate" misapplication of the word because the intent is rarely malicious and the use is almost always debatable.

I do tend to hate pedantic squabbles in an off-topic forum abut something so basic as a protein group. My list was intentionally non-homogenous (intended as sarcasm) and I wasn't citing a biological journal for the corresponding "filtering" method. Whether they are actually controlled and disposed of by the digestive system or simply endured on some mystical level.

As for your last point people often die from "water intoxication". While it's not a poison or toxin, per se, it's obviously able to kill someone if overindulged in.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_intoxication" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Per the internet: Toxicity is the degree to which a substance can damage an organism. Toxicity can refer to the effect on a whole organism, such as an animal, bacterium, or plant, as well as the effect on a substructure of the organism, such as a cell (cytotoxicity) or an organ such as the liver (hepatotoxicity)

Forum toxicity is still being researched. While like water in small amounts it clearly is not harmful in large volumes (forum intoxication) it may very well be.

Ok so hate was a strong word. Maybe I'm just a bit sensitive to it due to how frequently I'm asked by clients if this or that product will help them get fitter by "detoxifying" them. It'll definitely make their wallet lighter, that's for sure.

Are we squabbling, or just discussing? I'm just making my thoughts on it known, I'm not the final say on anything. I can see how my use of the quotation mark could be seen as condescending.



Also, just in general sarcasm is a tough one to pull off on a forum. None of the above sentences were intended as sarcasm.

Pork can contain parasites, other animals as well. For an interesting description of caribou meat, read "People of the Deer" by Farley Mowat & check out his description of what he found in a mature buck on the tundra.

Pork is no worse or better than any other meat. Preparation has a lot to do with it.

I refuse to give up smoked ribs. Two hours of indirect heat on hardwood charcoal, a foil wrap for two more hours & they're ready to eat.

This may also help:

Right there with you, David. FWIW, I go through at least 1lb of bacon per week and I'm still kicking.

Since the main question seems to be food-borne pathogens, I took a look at the CDC statistics. Now these are a bit outdated, and I have no idea of their collection methods, but it's the info that's available. Here's a fact sheet on estimated illnesses, hospitalizations, and deaths from various food-borne causes from 2000-2008. Trichinella, the parasite most commonly associated with pork, was responsible for 6 hospitalizations in that time and 0 deaths. Here are the 2011 "estimates" listing the top 5 pathogens in those same 3 categories.

Hope the EPA doesn't get involved with this one....

http://www.foxnews.com/leisure/2015/03/ ... -backyard/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;