LC200-n: What we know and what it means

[Surfingringo]

I wanted to open up a dialogue about this steel but first a disclaimer. When I say "what we know" I am referring only to my observations with the Tusk so let's take that with a collective grain of salt. Hopefully some other Tusk owners are using this steel and will offer up some results soon to confirm (or refute) my findings.

Anyway, if I am to be trusted, here's a few things we know about lc200-n.

1. It is extremely corrosion resistant. Don't know if it will rust but I couldn't make it happen.
2. It has significantly better edge retention than plain edge H1.
3. Unlike H1 it can be used with a liner or frame lock.
4. Unlike H1 it can be used outside of Japan.
5. It is vastly more resistant to scratching that H1.

So what does all this mean? I believe it could have many implications for those of us who like the Salt knives. I believe we now have an alternative to H1 in a fully rust proof knife...an alternative with some serious performance improvements. I think it opens up a plethora of new design possibilities too. With H1 we were relegated to Lockbacks made in Japan. With Lc200-n, the design horizon seems to be wide open. You want a Military Salt? I believe that is now a possibility. I have no idea where spyderco will go with this steel but I believe it opens up a ton of interesting opportunities. Thoughts?

[ManixFan]

Thoughts?
M-U-L-E pretty much sums it up to start.

[Laethageal]

Why a mule when there's a great folder out already?

[GoldenSpydie]

Thanks for posting your findings!

4. Unlike H1 it can be used outside of Japan.

FYI, H1 is being used in the Autonomy, which is made in the US.

[Surfingringo]

Thanks for posting your findings!

4. Unlike H1 it can be used outside of Japan.

FYI, H1 is being used in the Autonomy, which is made in the US.

Yes GS, I'm familiar with the Autonomy. i believe it would be an exception more than a rule though.

....the Autonomy is an anomaly....say that 5 times fast!

[Surfingringo]

Why a mule when there's a great folder out already?

I'm kind of of the same mind. I think I'd rather see them skip the mule and go straight to a more mainstream folder. Something with a 3-3.5 inch blade. Heck something just like a bigger tusk minus the marlinspike would be awesome. Or make a sprint run of Pacifc salts with pe lc200 blades. They do it all the time with other knives. They do it with the endura. Is there a reason they couldn't make a sprint run salt? Don't know if they work with this steel in Japan, but if they do that should be a very real possibility.

[The Deacon]

Has Sal ever said that H-1 is incompatible with locks other than the midlock? If not, I'm inclined to think it may simply be a case of unlined FRN midlocks having the fewest other parts that need to be rust proof.

[Surfingringo]

Has Sal ever said that H-1 is incompatible with locks other than the midlock? If not, I'm inclined to think it may simply be a case of unlined FRN midlocks having the fewest other parts that need to be rust proof.

My memory is definitely not to be trusted but I want to say that in one of those threads where twinboysdad and I were whining for a Millie Salt that Sal commented that h1 didn't work well with a liner lock. Could be wrong but I think I remmeber that. I always thought it might be because the tang was too soft and the lockup would wear too quickly. But that's just speculation on something I'm not even sure if I heard. How's that for hard data? Cliff would be proud!!

[Holland]

Has Sal ever said that H-1 is incompatible with locks other than the midlock? If not, I'm inclined to think it may simply be a case of unlined FRN midlocks having the fewest other parts that need to be rust proof.

I was also wondering this..

[Surfingringo]

Just did a search and found the old thread.

Hi Lance,

Thanx for the suggestion. There are a few reasons why an H! Millie would be very difficult, not to mention expensive.

H1 is a Japanese steel and they would prefer to build H1 knives in Japan. Thje Autonomy is a temporary exception becaue of the import laws governing autos. Once we going, we hope to be able to import some of the Autonomy parts.

When I tried to make a double RIL Dyad 2, the grinding of the ramp proved to be very challenging.

I don't think H1 would work well as a linerlock.

Using Titanium for liner, clip, etc. really jumps the cost up.

However, I am not opposed to discussing a new Salt. Starting from a clean sheet? Maybe a new thread?

sal

[Doc Dan]

I wonder how LC200N compares to other nitrogen steels like N680?

[TomAiello]

What's the general pricing level of LC200N?

My impression from street prices is that it's more expensive than H-1. Does anyone know if that's actually the case, though?

[SpyderNut]

This is fantastic news all around, 'Gringo. Just think if all of the posibilities! It sounds very similar ti H1, but without the "downsides." (I say "downsides," but I am not being critical of H1 in any way ). I do recall there being a discussion with Sal regarding H1 being a poor choice for liner or frame locks. Perhaps LC200-N is the key to some new and exciting developments. One can only hope!

[3rdGenRigger]

Titanium handled Military/ParaMilitary2/Manix2's with LC200N would be a great way to bring some Salt flavour to the USA made lineup...IMO anyways.

[bearfacedkiller]

What about easy golden made salts. The ti Millie sounds both awesome and expensive. UKPK would be an easy salt knife to make and would offer a salt knife for those who cannot have locking knives. A native 5 LW salt would be a must buy for me.

[TomAiello]

I would buy a Manix 2 Salt (LW or not) or a PM 2 Salt. I'd prefer LC200N, but I'd buy them in H-1 too.

[Zenith]

LC200N I have no experience with yet, but it does look interesting.

My only concern is with regards to "perception" in the market. It is not a "high wear resistant" steel that a lot of people seem to have a love child with. H-1 is overlooked by many because of this IMO and it is such a shame.

Since it is a non PM steel grade compared to Vanax or Nitrobe 77 (quite more expensive steels) but falls to my understanding somewhere between PM and ingot with Electroslag remelting for a cleaner ingot I would think one could look into 14C28N as well for cost effectiveness if LC200N proved to expensive, I hope not, as I would really like a Military in a highly corrosion resistant steel.

[Surfingringo]

With all this talk about new possibilities and what's next, I don't want to forget something. The Tusk itself is a really really nice knife! Great edc size, great ergonomics, tough little blade and marlinspike suitable for hard work, beautiful design with a very high "fondle value". It's kind of expensive but if you can swing it its a unique and well made spydie that's well worth the price. Makes a good conversation piece too. :D Honestly, I would love to see more people grab the tusk and use it as that would be the best way for us to get more instant feedback on this steel.

[Surfingringo]

.....My only concern is with regards to "perception" in the market. It is not a "high wear resistant" steel that a lot of people seem to have a love child with.

A good point Zenith. When I tested the steel it performed way closer to s30v than it did to H1. I wish I had a knife in vg10 so I could compare them. Based on what I know about how vg10 compares to s30v, my gut tells me that lc200n will fare pretty well. So hopefully someone out there can do some cutting tests with their tusk and a delica. If my gut is right and this steel can hold its own, a plain edge salt with performance on par with vg10 would be quite sought after I believe. No, not a "super steel" but a far cry above what we have with h1 right now.

I can say this for sure...for me, pe lc200n is a perfectly capable edc steel where as pe h1 just does not have good enough edge retention for me to use it in that capacity.

[Zenith]

I can say this for sure...for me, pe lc200n is a perfectly capable edc steel where as pe h1 just does not have good enough edge retention for me to use it in that capacity.

What do you cut with your PE H-1?

One of the reasons I like H-1 is that it will not chip on me, same reason I like Nitrobe-77, even at very low angles. In my experience if you cut very dirty material (this is where SE excels for me), no matter the steel, it goes dull and have found that high wear resistant steels fall short in this category as they will go dull through chipping and I hate chipping.

H-1 PE has served me well, I much prefer it in my reground Salt.