My missing Manbug, when are you coming home?

[weetoots]

I hate to write this thread but what I have done on my own has not succeeded.

In April, this year, I purchased a Manbug Lightweight, British Racing Green, ZDP-189 from Amazon. What a little beauty, for a while. One day I was looking into the case and saw what looked like rust. Wait a minute, this knife isn't supposed to rust. I then decided to dismantle the knife to better see what was on my blade. I was surprised with what I found, yuk. I took some pictures and typed up a letter to explain why I was sending my knife back to Spyderco.

Pictures can be viewed here http://s276.photobucket.com/user/weetoots/library/
Look in knife album.

I mailed my package on 5/13/2014. It as received at Spyderco on 5/16/2014.

I gave it some time for them to look at it. I didn't hear a thing. I understand they are busy, so I called Spyderco in mid-June and explained my situation to the lady. I asked when my knife would be ready to ship. She paused, I guess looking something up and came back on line and said it would mail next week.

I live in Hawaii and there is a time difference, I believe 4 hours, so it is hard to call.

Besides calling everyday, who do I need to get in touch with at Spyderco.

I know Sal is very busy, so I don't think it will be him, and I understand why.

My knives are registered. You should be able to get my info from there.

Regards.

A. Streicher

[araneae]

Sorry to hear about your long wait. Just FYI, zdp is known to be much less rust resistant than most stainless steels. Also, by dissassembling your knife, you voided the warranty. Whatever spyderco does to take care of you should be considered generous in light of this. I'm sure that someone will come along and make sure it gets addressed.

[Donut]

I hear everything rusts in Hawaii. Maybe a Salt knife would work better for you.

[PayneTrain]

Yeah ZDP isn't quite stainless. It's much better in corrosion resistance than a lot of non stainless steels, but it will still rust if given the chance because it has so darn much carbon. I really like the patina mine is developing, and I haven't had any rust on it yet with just some simple care keeping it clean and dry, though I imagine Hawaii is more humid on average than coastal CT.

[anagarika]

I don't think OP meant to say that ZDP should not rust and that he expected to have the service for free, nor that Spyderco should cover it under warranty.
What I gathered from his post is he wanted to know the status of his knife as it's been 1.5 months since mid June.

[PayneTrain]

Wait a minute, this knife isn't supposed to rust.

He sort of did, and this is really all I can comment on anyway other than to say that I'm sure the Spyderco team will take good care of him and get his knife back to him soon enough. I just wanted to throw in my experience with ZDP so that when he does get it back, he'll have a better idea of what to expect. And I love talking about steels! :D

[araneae]

I don't think OP meant to say that ZDP should not rust and that he expected to have the service for free, nor that Spyderco should cover it under warranty.
What I gathered from his post is he wanted to know the status of his knife as it's been 1.5 months since mid June.

Really that is the only indication he gave in his post; maybe he will return and clarify.

[anagarika]

Yeah, he might have thought ZDP was stainless while it's not. Thanks for correction.

I'm looking forward to a happy ending on this

[weetoots]

Thank you for your replies. Concerning my statement, "this knife is not supposed to rust" is based on the amount of Chromium (CR) contained in the recipe. Chromium (Cr)

- Added for increased wear resistance, hardness, tensile strength, and (most importantly) for corrosion resistance. Cr forms large, complex carbides. A steel with at least 13% chromium is typically deemed "stainless", though another definition says the steel must have at least 11.5% free chromium (as opposed to being tied up in carbides) to be considered "stainless". Despite the name, all steel can rust if not maintained properly. Adding Chromium in high amounts decreases toughness. Chromium is a carbide-former, which is why it increases wear resistance. Unfortunately, the amount of free Chromium in the steels is almost never specified.

However that being said, CR in this ZDP-189 is 20%.

In reference to Hawaii's climate, I have been in Miami and turned into a sweat shop. Now I assume that all of Fl. or East Coast is at times as bad as Miami.
The appeal of Hawaii is it's "trade winds" that are cool, and fairly dry. I live next to Diamond Head opposite side to Waikiki. It is very dry here, cacti are grown in many yards.

Warranty, no big deal just tell me what is on the knifes parts, and return it not assembled.

My main concern is the lacking of communication, after two email and one phone call that I suspect was someone saying "it's in the mail" just to get rid of me. Not a good way to built reputation. In my email I told them to call me or email to let me know of the costs. I not looking for a freebie.

Your very patient customer,

Al Streicher

[FCM415]

I'm a big fan of ZDP, it definitely is less rust resistant than the 20% chromium in the recipe suggests. For one, it has a whopping 3% carbon, and like OP is aware of, a lot of that chromium is tied up in carbides, not mentioning that it goes through proprietary methods not shared by Hitachi... Some mysteries there. I'll stop with the steel science because that's not my wheel house but from my experience, ZDP will discolor readily and rust if not looked after. The insides of a folding knife is (obviously) prone to rust and that goes for all the steels out there that aren't labeled rust proof like H1. To avoid rust developing on the insides, when I get fluid inside, I make sure I clean dry it ASAP... Again though, of all "stainless" knives I've owned, those in ZDP are the most prone to pitting and rust... I even oil it sparingly like I do carbon steels. With that being said, the insides of folders are very prone to rust as it is.

[weetoots]

Well, still no satisfaction. After 3 more emails, 2 phone calls with messages left to please call me. Nothing. How expensive is an email? A simple phone call? I am very disgusted with Spyderco's Customer service or should I say lack of customer service.

Sal, your company has had my Manbug, zdp-189 since 05/16/2014. Did you loose it?
How about either replace the knife or refund my money.

One un-satisfied customer,

Weetoots

[yablanowitz]

I was stationed in Hawaii for four years, and I've been in the area where you live. If you think that area is dry, come to southwest Kansas for a while and find out what dry is. The salt air there made keeping rust off my knives and guns a full-time job. Too bad that was long before the advent of H-1, it would have made things much easier.

Please try to remember that Spyderco is a small company. Warranty and Repair is one person (although I read a post by someone else that she had an intern "helping") taking care of all the returns from around the world. "Busy" doesn't begin to describe her. Taking time out to contact you personally to smooth your ruffled feathers would mean upsetting a dozen other people, each of which believe in their hearts that they are the only customer who has ever returned something and deserves instant personal service.

I really wish they would go back to pinned construction since so many people can't grasp that screw construction doesn't mean "user serviceable". Once you take it apart, you have voided the warranty and it is your responsibility to deal with whatever you find.

[phaust]

You can't judge rust resistance by chromium content. Rust resistance comes from free chromium (among a few other things). Since ZDP-189 also boosts up the carbon content (rel. a lot of other steels), a lot of that chromium ends up not being free chromium. ZDP189 is definitely not a steel to buy when looking for rust resistance.

That stinks you can't even get an update on the status . Contact is one of the most important facets of customer service, for sure.

[Cujobob]

I understand a bit of frustration over the lack of communication. That's an issue and I hope it will be resolved soon enough. It's fairly well known that the amount of chromium in a steel determines it's classification as being stainless, however, there's more to it than that. ZDP-189 is known to corrode if not well taken care of. I've never bothered to read up on why as I don't carry any knives in that steel, but you can google it and see all sorts of hits talking about just that. H1 would be a fantastic option, but this thread isn't about choosing another knife or steel.

[GoldenSpydie]

I've been to that area in HI myself...dry doesn't even come close to describing it. I live in Colorado, and frequently visit Wyoming. These areas are actually "dry."

Also, while moist air is one problem, the salt in the air and on everything is very corrosive. That's why the "Salt" line is called the "Salt" line, not the "Moist" line or something. Salt is very corrosive to iron and thus steel, no matter how much Chromium is in it.

If I lived in HI or FL, you can bet that I would only EDC knives from the Salt line. They use H1 for the blade material, and it is actually rust proof. My Salt 1 has been submerged in ocean water many times, and never rinsed or dried. It never rusted! They make a Salt version of the Delica, Endura, Ladybug, Dragonfly, and many others, so I'm sure there's something that will be perfect for you.

As others have said, opening the knife voided the warranty. Sending pictures of it taken apart just rubbed it in Spyderco's face.

[paladin]

hope you can still get a happy resolution, Al...

[weetoots]

I've been to that area in HI myself...dry doesn't even come close to describing it. I live in Colorado, and frequently visit Wyoming. These areas are actually "dry."

Also, while moist air is one problem, the salt in the air and on everything is very corrosive. That's why the "Salt" line is called the "Salt" line, not the "Moist" line or something. Salt is very corrosive to iron and thus steel, no matter how much Chromium is in it.

If I lived in HI or FL, you can bet that I would only EDC knives from the Salt line. They use H1 for the blade material, and it is actually rust proof. My Salt 1 has been submerged in ocean water many times, and never rinsed or dried. It never rusted! They make a Salt version of the Delica, Endura, Ladybug, Dragonfly, and many others, so I'm sure there's something that will be perfect for you.

As others have said, opening the knife voided the warranty. Sending pictures of it taken apart just rubbed it in Spyderco's face.

Warranty, who cares. I was looking at a piece of junk and not a Spyderco product but a fake. That was the reason I sent it to them. If someone was producing a piece of junk and putting my name on it, I would want to know.

As far as pictures taken, it is, what it is. A fact. Not intended to rub anything in anyone face. It was done to get info from you guys. Not a question of "What is this guy talking about".

If Spyderco decides not to send my dis-assembled knife back to me, oh well, so much for customer service.

Recently I bought an electric mower. It cut well and mulched the grass to very small pieces. Then I noticed that grass was sticking out of places it should not. , Overheating the motor, maybe causing a fire. I emailed the company, they asked if I could take pictures. I did, they were perplexed. They asked me to take the mower apart. I told them that I couldn't get to it right away, OK no problem.

Three weeks later they sent me a new in-the-box mower. Do I expect that from Spyderco? - NO

I hope I get it in time for Christmas.

No problem, man.

[dr_fosg8]

Something doesn't seem right here. If you have documentation of shipment and reciept of the package to Spyderco and nobody from the company has responded here directly is surprising whether your in the right or not. The folks at Spyderco have always been top notch IME.

[Buendia518]

The part in bold is confusing

Warranty, who cares. I was looking at a piece of junk and not a Spyderco product but a fake. That was the reason I sent it to them. If someone was producing a piece of junk and putting my name on it, I would want to know.

Are you saying the manbug you sent in was fake because zdp rusted? That doesn't make sense, but that also doesn't line up with your other quote below asking for a refund or replacement.

Sal, your company has had my Manbug, zdp-189 since 05/16/2014. Did you loose it?
How about either replace the knife or refund my money.

I hope it works out for you.

[weetoots]

The part in bold is confusing



Are you saying the manbug you sent in was fake because zdp rusted? That doesn't make sense, but that also doesn't line up with your other quote below asking for a refund or replacement.


I hope it works out for you.

Bad typing on my part.it was supposed to say "I thought I was looking at..
Also, I have the post office receipt and the tracking number says someone at Spyderco's
Signed for it. I guess I will now have to get the post office copy showing who signed for the package.
To think that you guys would think that I am making this up. I am not a 15 YO, I am 68 and frankly don't need the hassle.