Brown G-10 Stretch "Test Model" observations

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The Deacon
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Postby The Deacon » Fri Jun 20, 2014 2:18 pm

FWIW, my hand measures roughly 3 3/8" across the palm at the knuckles. I've been told that's relatively small for a man's hand. I can fully understand why lengthening the handle is a good idea. A roomier handle may not feel quite as good to a small hand, and especially to one accustomed to a better fitting one, but it still works. A cramped handle with smaller hands, is like trying to wear shoes that are too small.

Still, logical as it may be, it's just guesswork on my part. I do wish Sal would chime in with some insight on the reason or reasons behind the wider blade, longer lockbar, and longer handle.

Spent a while today turning a couple feet of 1 X 2 into wood chips. I will say that, in prolonged use, I find the test model a bit more comfortable than the CF, NGF, and bolstered versions, but less so than the "fatter" FRN versions, and my even fatter lignum vitae one. That's not really a surprise to me, It's a bit thicker than the other thin ones, and a bit wider to boot and I've always found the thicker versions more comfortable to use, and the thinner ones more comfortable to sit on.

One final observation - I'm not sure how folks who are right handed and set their knives up for RH/TU carry stand the clip when they're cutting. Mounted that way it served fairly well as a finger rest when I was cutting left handed, but when I tried a few cuts right handed the **** thing was digging into my palm like crazy.
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Postby Evil D » Fri Jun 20, 2014 2:35 pm

I don't have much to add except the handle changes look beautiful in pictures. The width of my hand is nearing 4 inches, and while I can fit my whole hand on the grip behind the choil, it was a tight fit. The change in the hook on the butt of the handle alone looks to me like it will fit my hand much more comfortably. I'm not too excited on an increase in belly, I'd actually prefer the edge were closer to a Delica in curvature, but I can live with it.
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Postby ManixFan » Fri Jun 20, 2014 2:41 pm

Paul.....4" across the palm at the knuckles for me is what makes the difference between a perfect knife for you and an almost perfect knife for me. In the current Stretch model (FRN) which I just now held in my hands to see what you are talking about - the dip in the clip where it touches the handle seems to fit almost exactly where my middle finger lies across the handle and the very tip of the clip that rises up from the lowest portion (that cradles my middle finger) falls between my index and middle finger so there isn't really any direct pressure on my index finger from the tip of the clip. When I choke up on the blade the same situation almost exists except now my third finger (beside the pinky) now fits into the clip where it meets the handle. Not quite as nicely as in a normal (non-choil choked up) grip but still not too bad and it doesn't dig into my middle finger too badly. But with a choked up hammer grip the end of the clip does dig into the very top fleshy part of my palm a little and with extended cutting in this grip I could foresee some discomfort. But then again with extended cutting in a hammer grip I might want to use gloves which would mitigate this problem - and with a longer handle glove usage is now possible.

I am curious - have you tried holding the new Stretch with thin leather work gloves yet? If you have gloves any around to test it like this I would be interested in hearing what you think of the longer handle after using the new Stretch with gloves.

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Postby DougC-3 » Fri Jun 20, 2014 3:36 pm

The Deacon wrote:

...

One final observation - I'm not sure how folks who are right handed and set their knives up for RH/TU carry stand the clip when they're cutting. Mounted that way it served fairly well as a finger rest when I was cutting left handed, but when I tried a few cuts right handed the **** thing was digging into my palm like crazy.
Interesting that you should mention that. I'm left handed and have been using left hand tip up carry a lot. A couple of months ago I bought a used Para Military 1 with its obligatory right-hand-tip-down-carry clip. I found that this is much more comfortable for me for left hand use. I realized that the LH/TU, clip-in-palm discomfort was probably the main reason I wasn't too crazy about PM2s. I'm EDCing my new FG Elmax PM2 "as issued," with clip mounted for RH/TD carry, with left hand, and it's much more comfortable. I now feel much more fondly toward my other PM2s. Deployment is no problem -- I got used to deploying that way with my cruwear Millie. Realistically, the chance of SD use and a second or so difference in deployment speed being crucial, is probably trumped by comfort during use.
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Postby m6steen » Fri Jul 04, 2014 1:23 pm

After seeing the changes, my guess is that I'll pass on this one mainly because of the longer handle. I wear medium-sized gloves and the Stretch2 fits my hand perfectly and one of the things I like most about it is the blade-to-handle ratio (~79%). Like the Para2, I rarely use the choil which feels too far forward to me in contrast to the Caly 3.5 which feels like the choil is made for the primary grip.
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Postby arty » Fri Jul 04, 2014 1:36 pm

m6steen wrote:After seeing the changes, my guess is that I'll pass on this one mainly because of the longer handle. I wear medium-sized gloves and the Stretch2 fits my hand perfectly and one of the things I like most about it is the blade-to-handle ratio (~79%). Like the Para2, I rarely use the choil which feels too far forward to me in contrast to the Caly 3.5 which feels like the choil is made for the primary grip.
Same here. The current model is a fantastic fit for my medium sized hands.

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Postby Evil D » Fri Jul 04, 2014 1:39 pm

m6steen wrote:After seeing the changes, my guess is that I'll pass on this one mainly because of the longer handle. I wear medium-sized gloves and the Stretch2 fits my hand perfectly and one of the things I like most about it is the blade-to-handle ratio (~79%). Like the Para2, I rarely use the choil which feels too far forward to me in contrast to the Caly 3.5 which feels like the choil is made for the primary grip.
I believe this to be accurate. Since the 3.5 shares it's DNA with the Caly 3, holding that knife I don't see why anyone would hold it behind the choil, to me it was clearly designed to use the choil in an standard clip, much the same as you would hold a Dragonfly with the choil. I'm sure some folks choose to grip behind the choil of course, but they feel so natural when choking up on that I can't see them being designed to be held behind the choil. A Para 2 or Manix 2 or Stretch or Military, those knives feel a lot more neutral, as if the choil was added as an option rather than being the primary grip. A perfect example of this is the Para 1...I don't see how anyone could stand holding that knife behind the choil, and I think much of the changes that went into the Para 2 were to give people an option to do so if they wanted to. For me the Manix 2 is the best knife out there for feeling "right" in either grip and doesn't feel more dominant one way or another for me. The Stretch and Military definitely feel better for me behind the choil, and the Para 2 is still a bit too cramped behind the choil for my hand size so I still grip it on the choil.
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Postby DougC-3 » Fri Jul 04, 2014 2:40 pm

I always sort of guessed that the behind-the-choil grip of the Caly 3 and 3.5 was to give you a little extra reach, or effective blade length, in case you were forced to use it in a self defense situation.

I find the PM 1 and 2 to be fairly usable in the behind the choil grip although the projection on the butt falls between my last two fingers with the PM1 and against my little finger with the PM2, but I haven't done much "hard use" with them, and I guess the PM1 might get uncomfortable pretty quick in that grip.

My first thought about the extra little 3/16" of handle length of the new Stretch was that it would be great for those with bigger hands and scarcely noticeable for those with smaller ones, but, if the current Stretch fits someone's hand perfectly, I can sympathize. At least they have a variety of existing Stretches to choose from.

Does anybody have any ETA estimates??
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Postby ManixFan » Fri Jul 04, 2014 7:27 pm

DougC-3 wrote: Does anybody have any ETA estimates??
Hopefully in time for Christmas! But then again, with all the new offerings coming out from what was shown at the 2014 Amsterdam meet I hope that the releases are staggered over about half a year or so, just so the financial impact of getting what I want (not need) will not be quite so bad a hit.
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Postby The Deacon » Sat Jul 05, 2014 3:51 am

DougC-3 wrote:I always sort of guessed that the behind-the-choil grip of the Caly 3 and 3.5 was to give you a little extra reach, or effective blade length, in case you were forced to use it in a self defense situation.

I find the PM 1 and 2 to be fairly usable in the behind the choil grip although the projection on the butt falls between my last two fingers with the PM1 and against my little finger with the PM2, but I haven't done much "hard use" with them, and I guess the PM1 might get uncomfortable pretty quick in that grip.

My first thought about the extra little 3/16" of handle length of the new Stretch was that it would be great for those with bigger hands and scarcely noticeable for those with smaller ones, but, if the current Stretch fits someone's hand perfectly, I can sympathize. At least they have a variety of existing Stretches to choose from.

Does anybody have any ETA estimates??
I tried using it while wearing gloves before returning it to Sal and, based on that, those of us with smaller hands may find it fits better than the current Stretch when they're wearing medium/heavy gloves. Can't recall the last time I actually needed to do that, but it still gives me an excuse to buy a couple of them when they become available. :o

As for ETA, I think that will depend on whether Sal is satisfied with the current prototype. If so, ManixFan's guess may pan out, or at least be close. Otherwise, it could be a while.
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Postby DougC-3 » Sat Jul 05, 2014 4:15 am

The Deacon wrote:As for ETA, I think that will depend on whether Sal is satisfied with the current prototype. If so, ManixFan's guess may pan out, or at least be close. Otherwise, it could be a while.
I was hoping sooner, but just ran across another one I may "need" first, so Christmas would be good with me.
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Postby sal » Sat Jul 05, 2014 9:07 am

Thanx for all of your help in the evaluation Paul. It's good for all of us.

We're just beginning the tooling now, so the project will still be a while before we have production.

sal

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Postby TBob » Sat Jul 05, 2014 10:01 am

sal wrote:Thanx for all of your help in the evaluation Paul. It's good for all of us.

We're just beginning the tooling now, so the project will still be a while before we have production.

sal
Thanks, Sal. Will the scales be brown like the prototype or something more attractive (no hint of bias there, eh)?
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Postby sal » Sat Jul 05, 2014 10:38 am

Hi TBob,

We'll probably make the first run in the Brown G-10. Whether it becomes part of the line or not will be the question. If it becomes part of the regular line, then odd sprints with different handle materials are a possibility depending on ELU demand.

sal

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Postby TBob » Sat Jul 05, 2014 11:18 am

sal wrote:Hi TBob,

We'll probably make the first run in the Brown G-10. Whether it becomes part of the line or not will be the question. If it becomes part of the regular line, then odd sprints with different handle materials are a possibility depending on ELU demand.

sal
Thanks, Sal. Have a great Independence Day weekend!
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Postby ManixFan » Sat Jul 05, 2014 2:40 pm

The Deacon wrote:I tried using it while wearing gloves before returning it to Sal and, based on that, those of us with smaller hands may find it fits better than the current Stretch when they're wearing medium/heavy gloves. Can't recall the last time I actually needed to do that, but it still gives me an excuse to buy a couple of them when they become available. :o

As for ETA, I think that will depend on whether Sal is satisfied with the current prototype. If so, ManixFan's guess may pan out, or at least be close. Otherwise, it could be a while.
Thanks for looking into the gloved hand fit on the new handle. Up here in the cold wilderness of Toronto, Canada there are some winter days where I need to get bundled up just to chip away at the ice at the front of my igloo in order to get to the sled and dog team that takes me to work in the winters. It's nice to know that the new Stretch will accommodate winter use up here in the far north :D

If only the the brown G-10 arrives at launch then I will still be picking up one of these new Stretches. It will give me an excuse to try my first attempt at custom 3D wood scales on a Spyderco folder. If I screw it up and the brown is bothering me too much then I can always get it to black with Rit dye. Then if a Peel Ply or Buffed CF shows up later and if boutique steels are also released in FRN versions (but not lined versions) then that will give me an excuse to buy more knives or switch out the boutique steel blades into a liner version of the new Stretch.

I guess that having an excuse to buy more knives is a win-win situation all around.....except for my bank account of course. ;)
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Postby VictorLouis » Sun Jul 13, 2014 7:51 pm

Changes are subtle enough to me that w/o having knowledge of it, I may(MAY) simply take it for a sprint run in brown G10. In other words, the CQI I see here ought to be well worth it. Paul, thanks MUCH for this post, your pics, and the effort. Us Stretch folk know you are Thee Man for this model, and Sal couldn't have picked better to loan it to.
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Postby tap78 » Tue Jul 29, 2014 6:31 am

Any update on this one? When it will be released? I want it badly :) )))
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Postby RadioactiveSpyder » Tue Jul 29, 2014 2:41 pm

I hate to say it but hopefully not too soon. I can't afford any more knives being released in the next month or two!
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Postby DougC-3 » Tue Jul 29, 2014 3:30 pm

RadioactiveSpyder wrote:I hate to say it but hopefully not too soon. I can't afford any more knives being released in the next month or two!
+1 -- I was thinking the same thing :(
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