New Gayle Bradley...disappointed

[Cliff Stamp]

That was not my intent ...

I didn't believe it was, just consider it from the point of view of the person making the problem who is often extremely upset, not fully rational and how they can react to it. This is why customer service response is best left to the people who excel at it like Sal.

--

As an aside, I have been called a shill before many times, even for Spyderco, though more commonly Busse. It is not an unreasonable line of questioning given I have made strong praise about certain companies and rational people should ask the question are sources biased. However when it has come up and people have claimed I am biased I have simply responded noting that to the best of my knowledge my statements are objective (as they are based on objective data) and can be verified by independent sources including materials data and physics/metallurgy.

In general people who are objective are not upset when bias is questioned (shilling is just a type of bias) because if you strive to be objective you are always taking measures to avoid bias. The only people who get upset when it is argued they are biased is the people who are biased and can't provide evidence that they are not and they are emotionally invested in the non-factual position they have created.

[tvenuto]

Spyderco is the OG of objective data, they were releasing failure points of products (lock breaking, corrosion, dulling) before people even knew those standards could be used. They don't need to hide the performance of their product, the more clear, the more objective, the higher they will stand.

I have nothing to add except to point out that Cliff called Spyderco the Original Gangsters of objective testing and data, and I for one support this characterization.

[78lilred]

Just checked all of cliff's posts to see him saying original gangsters, disappointed to not see it. To the OP sucks that you got a sub par specimen, love mine to death.

[senorsquare]

Just checked all of cliff's posts to see him saying original gangsters, disappointed to not see it. To the OP sucks that you got a sub par specimen, love mine to death.

Here ya go:

Spyderco is the OG of objective data, they were releasing failure points of products (lock breaking, corrosion, dulling) before people even knew those standards could be used.

[78lilred]

Thanks, I just ctrl+f'd Gangster for a quick scan lol. Also tvuento added the quote now.

[Cliff Stamp]

In past threads here, there have been whinging rants evidently intent on embarrassing Spyderco for its imperfections rather than on getting the imperfections resolved.

And again, this isn't what I was referring to, to repeat :
[INDENT]If you have a different standard for accepting evidence solely based on the conclusion that is formed from it, then you are biased.[/INDENT]

If someone makes a post and you disagree with a conclusion they have formed as their argument is invalid or not sound then it is perfectly rational to point out how the conclusion does not follow from the argument and it does not show any kind of bias to object to the conclusion.

However, if you only do this when the conclusions are negative then you have a bias, in this case it is the type of bias which is called shilling as you being biased towards promotion. If you openly declare that you are doing this (being promotional) then it isn't shilling any more, but still biased as shilling is bias which pretends to be objective.

This means if you are going to correct posts which form negative conclusions because of lack of soundness then you have to correct posts which form positive conclusions which are also lacking in soundness as well. If you don't then you are biased, if you don't openly admit you have this bias and pretend you are being objective then you are shilling.

These types of activities only benefit companies which can not withstand objective review, any company that would excell in objective comparisons does not only not benefit from biased commentary, it is actually hurt by it. Especially when the head of the company has the kind of integrity that Sal constantly exhibits.

[ChrisinHove]

I think that by-and-large, forum users probably can differentiate between "honest" criticism/complaint and disgruntled rants for themselves. Personally I'm as interested in the former as the "posts of unbridled joy".

Good honest debate, though!

[MacLaren]

......so nows my chance. with all the attention this thread has gotten and as many people in the know are checking it out, I have to ask when the K2 will be coming out and is there anywhere I can sign up to get one? :) Thanx!

[tvenuto]

......so nows my chance. with all the attention this thread has gotten and as many people in the know are checking it out, I have to ask when the K2 will be coming out and is there anywhere I can sign up to get one? :) Thanx!

See your XL thread for my answer.

[MacLaren]

See your XL thread for my answer.

Thank you!