Clarity on the C81CFPE2 – Para Military 2 Carbon Fiber CPM 154/CPM S90V

[RealKnifeUser]

Thanks Kristi. This kind of response from you and Spyderco are what sets, IMO, the benchmark for how companies interact with and listen to their customers. Much appreciated.

- Ryan

[Liquid Cobra]

Thanks Kristi, the clarification is very much appreciated.

Please forgive my ignorance if the following is a stupid question. I'm trying to understand this situation.

Why not make a second batch?

Spyderco has figured out how to manipulate the steel, they will be getting more to work with, there is demand for PM2's.

[All-R-Crazy]

.
There will be other models produced with CPM 154/ CPM S90V composite steel. There will be real-world testing to come in the future.
Spyderco does not have a “Board”. Our company culture is very much so the opposite of “Corporate”. We try, very hard, every day to do business in a fair, proper and honest way. Our mindset is not about how much can we get. It’s usually more along the lines of “it’s never been done before… how can we do it.”
Could we have done a better job of releasing more information about this one knife? Yes, yes we could have. I can’t explain it, I can’t give you an excuse for it. I’ll just offer our apology for not making an announcement sooner.

I feel that there isn't any need to apologize, u do the best u can. pls at least tell us ,if this run works, will there b more s90v/cmp 154 runs of the paraII

[All-R-Crazy]

Wouldn't the Team Mule be the best platform to test this out on? No one is going to use this PM2 if they get their hands on one, haha.

All my knives would get use it's a dishonor to spyderco if they just sit in a stand or law in a drawer

[JNewell]

I hope to see this steel on the Manix 2 XL so we can do some head to head testing with the Full S90V version

A Mule blade would be the PERFECT test vehicle for this sort of comparison. The fact that the steel supply is currently limited shouldn't rule out a future issue. This steel is going to be in the "experimental" category for quite a while, I think.

[Blerv]

Thanks Kristi, the clarification is very much appreciated.

Please forgive my ignorance if the following is a stupid question. I'm trying to understand this situation.

Why not make a second batch?

Spyderco has figured out how to manipulate the steel, they will be getting more to work with, there is demand for PM2's.

Hi Liquid,

No intent to answer for Kristi but it seems they are more or less making these at cost to see how the steel and process works. Even making a second batch would be spinning wheels for little to no gain.

The real question is where is that M4 or 110v Para2?

[NoFair]

Thanks for posting Kristi

M4 and coyote G10 would be awesome! Bead blasted clip please :D

[Trevitrace]

M4 para? Not interested in the least. :)

[Donut]

Hi Liquid,

No intent to answer for Kristi but it seems they are more or less making these at cost to see how the steel and process works. Even making a second batch would be spinning wheels for little to no gain.

The real question is where is that M4 or 110v Para2?

Heck, now that we're laminating and mixing steels, instead of S90V and 154, why not S110V and M4? :)

[IG-88]

Thx for the update! Nice gesture towards the Collectors Club members and dealers!

Also probably the first $1K PM2 on Ebay

[Philo Beddoe]

I feel that there isn't any need to apologize, u do the best u can. pls at least tell us ,if this run works, will there b more s90v/cmp 154 runs of the paraII

"Knowing that we would ultimately obtain more CPM 154/CPM S90V composite we planned to use the future stock in other models. We knew that the Para Military2 would be a great choice for the first-ever offering. We also knew that to release a small quantity now and then release more later would have consequences. Historically speaking, we’ve been down that road before and it was a less-than-friendly journey. We make it a habit to listen to our customers (you) and we learned from that journey."

I think that answer that question: Are they going to make another run of the Para2 with these 2 steels: No

Are they going to make other models with these 2 steels: Yes

I like the fact this is geared more for the CC members :cool:

[dogrunner]

...

The real question is where is that M4 or 110v Para2?

Yeah, exactly!! Either would work for me.

I posted my thanks to Kristi at BF and won't repeat it here, but the main point is that there is zero reason to complain about missing any one special release. I'm happy that there are so many great designs released by spyderco and can't afford all of them anyway!

[TomAiello]

Will there be no more PM2s in this steel? Or no more PM2/CF?

I'm not sure how to read it, but I can see how there's still a little crack in the door to allow Spyderco to release PM2s in this steel in the future, if they wish.

I'll keep my fingers crossed for a Manix 2 run with larger volume. :)

[timlara]

Thanks, Kristi. It's always refreshing to hear that there are still companies out there focused on something other than the stock market.

[bchan]

Hello Kristi, while we are at this thread, is it possible for you or some other person to explain the advantages of using this new composite as opposed to pure S90V. Thanks.

[jalcon]

I read that as this steel will be used in the future..but this is it for PM2s in this steel.

[ugaarguy]

Sal, Kristi, here's another outside idea. If you can only make 300 of a knife, which would only be 6 per state if they were evenly distributed across the fifty United States, don't even announce it. Just offer it straight to the collectors club and avoid amping up the general public. Alternately, do them as a charity auction on eBay like Nike did with the 1500 pair of Air Mag (the Back to The Future shoes) they made in 2011. I'd rather you do them as charity auctions. That way Spyderco recovers the cost of production and experimentation, and a worthwhile cause or organization gets the benefits instead of secondary market profiteers.

Further, I think Spyderco has too many irons in the fire. You guys need to slow down with the experiments and get caught up on orders for standard catalog knives that are in high demand. I'm afraid to carry my Paramilitary 2 because if I lose it or damage it I'd have a hard time replacing it. Demand for the Para2 alone, which is supposed to be a standard production knife, has exceeded production for well over year. There are other standard catalog items that have been in similar demand for similar time periods. Please, get caught up on production of standard catalog items, and then worry about the side projects.

[DougC-3]

Thanks Kristi, for providing us with this free of charge, free-speech platform to discuss these things, and being tolerant even when we get blathery, self-centered or worse. No apology is necessary and I can't imagine any other similar business being concerned about prior information for customers for anything other than promotional purposes, or listening to their customers much at all. This is one of the many things that make Spyderco unique.

But first and foremost, I'm astonished that Spyderco can use in knife production this unique, leading edge, space age technology which we would expect to see first in a Mars expedition or the like! Spyderco is truly one of a kind.

When true collecting is involved, there is usually some unobtainable 1909S vdb penny, upside down aircraft stamp, Mona Lisa, Strativarius, unicorn horn, or whatever out there to make things thrilling and exciting for collectors. The Collector's Club members make a huge commitment, are a very important part of the Spyderco phenomenon, and deserve any benefits they can get. If every sprint run was cheap and abundant enough for everybody, it would be sort of like loser's trophies :)

[jabba359]

Sal, Kristi, here's another outside idea. If you can only make 300 of a knife, which would only be 6 per state if they were evenly distributed across the fifty United States, don't even announce it. Just offer it straight to the collectors club and avoid amping up the general public. Alternately, do them as a charity auction on eBay like Nike did with the 1500 pair of Air Mag (the Back to The Future shoes) they made in 2011. I'd rather you do them as charity auctions. That way Spyderco recovers the cost of production and experimentation, and a worthwhile cause or organization gets the benefits instead of secondary market profiteers.

Further, I think Spyderco has too many irons in the fire. You guys need to slow down with the experiments and get caught up on orders for standard catalog knives that are in high demand. I'm afraid to carry my Paramilitary 2 because if I lose it or damage it I'd have a hard time replacing it. Demand for the Para2 alone, which is supposed to be a standard production knife, has exceeded production for well over year. There are other standard catalog items that have been in similar demand for similar time periods. Please, get caught up on production of standard catalog items, and then worry about the side projects.

I think you're wrong on both counts. Spyderco didn't amp this up to the general public. The only reason it came up on the forum is because a dealer (who is also a Collector Club member) shared the info with us. So they already gave us what you are asking for. This knife, being a variant, is going to only the highest level of the Collector's Club and seems to be rewarding them for buying every single knife Spyderco makes. Now, if a CC member wants to sell it on the secondary market and make a profit, that's their prerogative. The only knives in addition to the ones going to CC members is for the Premier partners, who -if I understand correctly- are dealers that work with Spyderco and also deserve a little reward for getting Spyderco knives to the public. You auction idea, however, isn't bad at all.

As for too many irons in the fire, I also disagree. IIRC, Spyderco has already announced that they don't plan on doing any more Para 2 exclusives until they get caught up on production. Also, asking Spyderco to stop experimenting and innovating is asking them to go completely against their DNA. I appreciate that Spyderco takes time to do these side projects because they love steel and love knives.

[ugaarguy]

Also, asking Spyderco to stop experimenting and innovating is asking them to go completely against their DNA.

First, I didn't say they should quit innovating. I said they should slow down until they get caught up with production. The PM2 is just one of several knives that they can't keep up with demand.

Second, I didn't say that Spyderco amped up the public. I said the public announcement amped up the public. I have no problem with the collectors club members getting these.

I offered solutions. I'm sorry you don't like them, but don't put words in my mouth.