Spyderco Forums

This knife has generated considerable interest due to the material which is 440C but used in an as-cast state :

-http://www.cliffstamp.com/knives/forum/read.php?5,24899
-http://www.cliffstamp.com/knives/forum/ ... p?20,24447

-prototype : http://spydercollector.wordpress.com/20 ... n-serrata/

-the makers version : http://www.spyderco.com/forums/showthre ... l-thoughts

-maker website : http://ackermancustomknives.com/



Compared to the Temperance 2, it isn't a small knife. A few specifications :

-0.215" blade stock
-full flat grind, 3.5 dps primary grind
-0.03" edge bevel, 14.5 dps (checked on the 15 dps Sharpmaker, catches immediately)

Blade is :

-220 grams (neutral balance)
-4 5/8" blade
-4.5" handle
-2.5" distal taper

The handle is full functional length, however almost 1" of the blade is not sharpened at the base - this isn't obvious from the side pictures. To be clear I mean it isn't apexed, it is 1 mm wide at the base and gradually thins until it is apexed about 1" from the choil.

Handle is :

-0.97 to 1.2" wide
-0.58 to 0.72 " thick

Very stable in hand, due to the large difference in width vs thickness, no chance of it rolling, however the edges are very square, barely broken, the pressure is obvious even in a tight grip. Front of the handle/top is also sharp so thumb over ramp and pinch grips can hit sharp points.

Initial sharpness is solid but not extreme :

-shaves, but requires force against the skin/slight
-slices newsprint well, no push cut, does a 45 degree zipper cut
-110-130 grams to push cut espirit thread
-0.25 to 0.45 cm to slice bergia spinning thread under a 40 gram load

Initial edge 50X magnification :



-coarse shaping grit
-nice buff job, not rounded out

Cutting ability is moderate to high :

3/8" hemp

-push cut, 34-36 lbs
-2" draw, 14-15 lbs

A few materials :



-slices cords well
-plastics, thin and thick
-foams

Light wires were ok :



Twenty cuts into light cord (tv cable, charger cable, etc.) only had one issue and that was when the knife twisted.

However heavier cable was an issue (CAT-5) :



It would not cut the core, the edge buckled.



These are both 100 slices into hardwood, light force 10-20 lbs. This is mainly dependent on edge angle (assuming the blade is sharp and there are no issues with ergonomics/security or leverage which there are not). The difference in wood shaving thickness is obvious and just shows the edge angle ratio (10/15).


However with heavier cuts into softer wood the performance equalizes and it can cut as well as the Mora :



The edge aside from the damaged wire areas :



No issues, no reflection of light.

I cut the edge off then :

-10 pps with a 700 bester, light micro-bevel, apex immediately
-20 pps with a 600 DMT, easily shaved, very sharp (< 0.1 cm on the bergia / 40 gram load)

A few side observations / comments :

-as always Spyderco gives credit, Boye is mentioned in the pamphlet (Stewart is also vocal Boye was an influence)
-the very thick spine poses some interesting questions about scope of work
-there was mention of this as a bushcraft knife (silly label) but the spine is broken/chamfered

This looks interesting to use.

Thanks for that Cliff...I was going to link to your review, but you were faster...

The Amsterdam prototype had a thinner edge than the model right now...

Stuart Ackerman wrote:The Amsterdam prototype had a thinner edge than the model right now...

Which one is in this review?

Why would the last inch of the blade be left unsharpened? That decreases the attractiveness for me.

Brummie wrote:Why would the last inch of the blade be left unsharpened? That decreases the attractiveness for me.

I would hope that this was just an error with sharpening and not something that is done on purpose...

Thank you for the review Cliff. It's concise, demonstrates some practical usage, and pushes the blade a bit. I appreciate the magnified edge shots. They really demonstrate what is going on at the edge. I'm looking forward the Serrata's release. Mike

The Amsterdam model had the edge all the way at the rear of the blade, VERY close to the thumb in edge up configuration...
This one has the edge away from the scales to make it safer for the user...

I have a complicatewd grind to get it to work for me, and the makers battled to replicate my grind...hence Spyderco's solution to widen the blade at the rear, and leave a gap of unsharpened blade...

I am busy at the moment, but I will do a comparison pic between Spyderco and mine later on today?

Yes, please. I'd love to see the comparison pics.

DeathBySnooSnoo wrote:I would hope that this was just an error with sharpening and not something that is done on purpose...

This to me was a large negative. I understand why it is done because if the edge goes all the way back someone could easily slide their finger up on the blade and given how Spyderco typically ships knives that could lead to issues. However my reaction was just an initial one, while it is a personal problem it will be removed in subsequent sharpenings and the apex is already starting to creep back towards the choil.

One thing which might not be obvious from the pictures is that this is a bolo styled blade and by that I mean the edge actually curves down towards the choil, you can feel this in cutting, I noticed it as soon as I cut into wood, you can feel the trapping effect. Visually however it is only slight and I didn`t catch it in the first measurements, but you can feel it in cutting.

As an update, the knife isn't flat, it is convex, but uneven in side to side and it also varies along the length. Close to the coil the curvature increases dramatically on one side, so much so that the knife is only reduced in thickness to 0.17" at half height. This has a dramatic affect on the secondary bevel because if it was increased right to the choil so the blade was fully sharpened the edge width will increased dramatically to 3/16" wide.

After some kitchen use which shows fairly heavy wedging on hard vegetables and an inability to do precision work (slicing onions horizontally). I have decided to thin the blade to zero the grind to maximize it as a slicing/cutting knife. Stewart has advised against batoning, and in generat cast-440C isn't a sensible choice for heavy impact work and the general design works very well for butchering type work.

For example using it in the kitchen alongside a Temperance 2 which was zero'ed, the Temperance still felt awkward for a lot of work due to the handle/blade configuration but the Serrata is much more natural. With a full zero it will also bring out the maximum slicing/cutting ability of the steel.

Stuart, can you comment on the choice of steel? Was it a design choice, or was it dictated by production factors?

I will do pics in a short while..Tom...

David Boye used 440C and I did not want to re-invent the wheel for the interim...Elmax does NOT work...

I am sure that other steels will work, and Sal I and will discuss further, I guess? I could also buy 440C in round bar form as slightly reduced price...that option is now gone...

Cobalt is an option...

Thanks Cliff. Maybe some photos when you have reprofiled? Thank you. Mike

Cliff Stamp wrote:As an update, the knife isn't flat, it is convex, but uneven in side to side and it also varies along the length. Close to the coil the curvature increases dramatically on one side, so much so that the knife is only reduced in thickness to 0.17" at half height. This has a dramatic affect on the secondary bevel because if it was increased right to the choil so the blade was fully sharpened the edge width will increased dramatically to 3/16" wide.

After some kitchen use which shows fairly heavy wedging on hard vegetables and an inability to do precision work (slicing onions horizontally). I have decided to thin the blade to zero the grind to maximize it as a slicing/cutting knife. Stewart has advised against batoning, and in generat cast-440C isn't a sensible choice for heavy impact work and the general design works very well for butchering type work.

For example using it in the kitchen alongside a Temperance 2 which was zero'ed, the Temperance still felt awkward for a lot of work due to the handle/blade configuration but the Serrata is much more natural. With a full zero it will also bring out the maximum slicing/cutting ability of the steel.

Side by side...Spyderco is black...

Thanks Stuart!

Here is the knife after the regrind :



This was not taken down to zero, the edge is 0.010-0.015" behind the apex which is about 12-13 dps. I will gradually zero it but do it in stages as I explore the performance. I also :

-rounded out the edges of the handle, squarish as-boxed
-blended back the front of the grip, squarish as-boxed
-lightly scuffed the handle, improve texture/indexing

Looks great Cliff :) .

Thank you Stuart and Cliff for the continued updates. All very interesting and informative. I'm enjoying the process. Mike