Opinions of super blue blade steel please

[JerryIsAlive]

This thread has given me a headache :p

So... is superblue worth it to wait a while longer instead of getting same knife in vg10?

[chuck_roxas45]

This thread has given me a headache :p

So... is superblue worth it to wait a while longer instead of getting same knife in vg10?

The real answer is, it depends. :D

[Syncharmony]

This thread has given me a headache :p

So... is superblue worth it to wait a while longer instead of getting same knife in vg10?

What I've gotten from this all is that if you like to set thin bevels (30 degrees inclusive or narrower) and you enjoy sharpening to a fine grit and having a really sharp edge, then superblue is a good choice.

Basically, if you love sharpening your knives, then superblue is a great steel. If you aren't a sharpening nut, then VG-10 will do you absolutely fine.

[TomAiello]

I can't wait for the Super Blue stretch...anyone know when it's supposed to be available?

[bearfacedkiller]

Thank you. I have been a lurker for a long time and this kind of info is what drew me here. You guys rock!

I have a 1095 knife that makes food taste funny until the patina redevelops which isn't long. Sometimes I just force the patina. It is a camping knife and I have to refinish it once in a while.

Got a SB delica on the way. Yeah!

[Cliff Stamp]

So... is superblue worth it to wait a while longer instead of getting same knife in vg10?

Do you :

-use angles lower than 15 dps
-sharpen to a very high level (face shaving)
-not wait until the blade is very dull before sharpening
-prefer higher polishes

Then you would likely prefer Super Blue over VG-10. However if you :

-use angles at 15 dps or higher
-prefer coarse finishes
-only need a knife to slice photocopy paper
-let it rip cardboard before you sharpen

It is unlikely you would see any benefit to SuperBlue and in fact might see it as having lower performance.

It also isn't stainless and will rust very quickly exposed even to water.

[willc]

I have both the Delica and Endura in Super Blue and it may very we'll be my favorite steel.
It is very easy to sharpen and the edge gets way sharper than any normal person would need.
Retention is very good also, nothing like 3V or M4 but still a great steel.

[WorkingEdge]

Got a Superblue Delica for fun and put a nice fine edge on it. Since it is meant for keen edges, I followed my shapton 30k with some Lee Valley 0.1 micron lapping film. Makes a nice ping when tree topping hair. :)

[jackknifeh]

Got a Superblue Delica for fun and put a nice fine edge on it. Since it is meant for keen edges, I followed my shapton 30k with some Lee Valley 0.1 micron lapping film. Makes a nice ping when tree topping hair. :)

That is really cool. I want to confirm something though. I have thought tree topping a hair means several slivers of whittled hair on the same strand. Is this correct? If not can you explain it? Thanks.

I've tried the hair hanging test (HHT) and best I could get was for the hair to vibrate as I stroked it. I haven't gotten an edge to pop the hair in two yet. More practice I guess. :) I haven't tried it in a while though and I don't remember if I tried the HHT on a straight razor. That would have a much thinner edge. I don't know if a VERY low angle on a razor would make a difference or not.

Jack

[WorkingEdge]

That is really cool. I want to confirm something though. I have thought tree topping a hair means several slivers of whittled hair on the same strand. Is this correct? If not can you explain it? Thanks.

I've tried the hair hanging test (HHT) and best I could get was for the hair to vibrate as I stroked it. I haven't gotten an edge to pop the hair in two yet. More practice I guess. :) I haven't tried it in a while though and I don't remember if I tried the HHT on a straight razor. That would have a much thinner edge. I don't know if a VERY low angle on a razor would make a difference or not.

Jack

My understanding of "tree topping" meant holding hair on one end and being able to cut it completely through as in "cutting off the top of a tree." I believe there is a difference whether making a slight slicing motion versus just a pushing cut motion as well. I'm no expert in these terminologies though. Also, which end of hair you are holding apparently makes a difference if easier to do or not, at least I've noticed. I looked at micrographs of hair structure to see why and it may be that in one direction, a keen edge catches the little "nooks and crannies" better.

[kbuzbee]

I always took it to mean the same motion as shaving but with the blade above, not touching, the skin. But still cutting through the hairs (eg - on your arm.)

Ken

[jackknifeh]

That sounds like a better understanding than what I had. I read an article about the HHT and it showed strongly magnified pictures of a hair. Picture the scales on a fish. A hair is similar and you want to cut into the hair as if sliding the edge under (from the rear) a scale. When doing the HHT it is important to try to cut the hair in the right direction.

Jack

[chuck_roxas45]

I always took it to mean the same motion as shaving but with the blade above, not touching, the skin. But still cutting through the hairs (eg - on your arm.)

Ken

Great explanation! I started typing but found I was unintellegible. :)

[flash900]

Do you :

-use angles lower than 15 dps
-sharpen to a very high level (face shaving)
-not wait until the blade is very dull before sharpening
-prefer higher polishes

Then you would likely prefer Super Blue over VG-10. However if you :

-use angles at 15 dps or higher
-prefer coarse finishes
-only need a knife to slice photocopy paper
-let it rip cardboard before you sharpen

It is unlikely you would see any benefit to SuperBlue and in fact might see it as having lower performance.

It also isn't stainless and will rust very quickly exposed even to water.

Thanks, Cliff.

Just what I needed to know!

[arty]

To get clarification, will edge retention cutting food (not bones) be any different between Super blue and VG10 if both are at RC 60, with the same edge geometry? I am assuming sharpening to no more than a 2K Shapton Pro stone, or a fine Spyderco ceramic stone.
Will Super blue give you a longer lasting sharp edge if you go really fine with sharpening, say past 5000K on a waterstone.

[jackknifeh]

To get clarification, will edge retention cutting food (not bones) be any different between Super blue and VG10 if both are at RC 60, with the same edge geometry? I am assuming sharpening to no more than a 2K Shapton Pro stone, or a fine Spyderco ceramic stone.
Will Super blue give you a longer lasting sharp edge if you go really fine with sharpening, say past 5000K on a waterstone.

Don't put much weight in my opinion because it is based on very limited knowledge and testing accuracy. But with the limited testing I have done I find that while there may be significant difference in a testing situation and you are paying close attention to everything, when you use the two knives in real use and not "comparing" them there is not enough difference to notice. Definately not enough difference to jump out at you. So, after any testing and whatever I determine to be accurate (SB holds an edge at a lower angle longer than VG-10 for example) then I either buy and use only SB blade knives and sell all my VG-10 knives (or just don't use them) OR, and this is reality, I use all of them that I want without caring much about the small differences in edge retention. I just enjoy a great knife. :) They are both great blade steels evidently (don't have SB, yet, have D'fly SB on pre-order :D ). So I just use them and be happy. If there is any knives in the house or in my pocket that have blade steels that are IMO unsatisfactory (440A for example), I will not use them or carry them. Well, If I'm going outside to dig a hole I'll use use 440A. :)

It's just nice to know the knife I'm using is a great knife. Thinking about the small differences during everyday use takes the fun out of it a little. I might think "I wish I had a serrated edge instead of a plain edge" but I don't think I'll ever think "I wish I had SB instead of VG-10". :) I like testing and seeing differences but not dewlling on it. If I did that I'd be dissatisfied with some knives. :)

Jack

[Cliff Stamp]

To get clarification

It depends on how sharp you get the blade, the angle and how dull you let the blade go before sharpening, hence the questions asked previously :


Do you :

-use angles lower than 15 dps
-sharpen to a very high level (face shaving)
-not wait until the blade is very dull before sharpening
-prefer higher polishes

Then you would likely prefer Super Blue over VG-10. However if you :

-use angles at 15 dps or higher
-prefer coarse finishes
-only need a knife to slice photocopy paper
-let it rip cardboard before you sharpen

It is unlikely you would see any benefit to SuperBlue and in fact might see it as having lower performance.

[Blerv]

Hi Cliff,

How about a factory FFG Delica or Caly edge which I recall being at or less than 15 dps? I touch up frequently on white stones, a few passes each side just to restore the hair popping edge.

In this case besides corrosion resistance and purchase price would vg10 have any advantage?

[arty]

Cliff
Coarse and fine finishes are very broad generalizations when it comes to a practical question. My question was really how fine do you have to take the finish before you see advantages in holding an edge for Superblue -assuming the same geometry and edge angle? 400 grit? 1000? 1500? 2000? 5000? 8000?
From your answer, it sounds like you don't gain much from Superblue, unless you want to cut fish for sushi and you do this for hous on end.

[jackknifeh]

I may have missed it but I don't remember anyone talking about edge retention differences in a toothy or smooth edge when all other things are equal. In my mind, which is a rediculous thing to trust, I'd think a toothy edge would have less edge retention because I'd think the very tiny teeth might snap off quicker than a smooth edge where there is still steel between the teeth (if it were a toothy edge). A smooth edge just seems more solid to me. Like I said though, this is just my thinking but not tested by me or anyone else that I remember. I'd be curious to know which holds an edge longer. For me toothy or smooth wouldn't make much difference but edge retention would. Truth be told though I don't NEED much edge retention now. I don't work therefore don't use my EDC knives as much as I used to.

Jack