Knife steel differences

[SmallBlock]

I currently own a Spyderco Tenacious with a 8Cr13MoV blade and it's pretty easy to sharpen. I've been looking at Benchmade knives and was wondering is 154CM steel and M390 steel worth the high price? Im looking for a knife that will hold a supreme edge and take some heavy abuse as in a lot of heavy cutting through out the day. I've read that those two steels are hard to sharpen but sharpening knives is one of my specialities! I have several different stones from diamond to carborundum to 1500 grit razor hones and leather strops. Got to have the leather!!! Also which would be the absolute best blade steel of the two? I have lot's of knives, CRKT,Spyderco & Buck. Out of all the knifes i have I'd have to say it's a toss-up between my Spyderco with 8Cr13MoV blade, and my Buck with the 440C steel. Both will get ultra-sharp but the Spyderco holds an edge just a little longer. I sure would hate to spend $150-$175 on a Benchmade and it not be much different that what I have!

[North61]

I am no steel expert but with equal heat treat there are steels with more wear resistance than 8Cr13Mov which is similar to Aus 8 and might be a bit under a good 440C.

440C = 1% carbon, 17.5% chrome
AUS-8 = 0.75% carbon, 14% chrome
8Cr13Mov = 0.8% carbon, 13% chrome

The carbon and chrome combine to form chromium carbides which give the steel extra wear resistance (edge holding). 440 C has a bit more carbon and chrome to do this. 154 Cm is perhaps a slight step up. Some of the high carbon Vanadium steels form Vanadium Carbides and Chromium Carbides and are noticeably better at edge holding. They might not be quite as tough though. A very nicely balanced steel is VG10 It is used in a lot of Spyderco's. A step up from 440C in edge holding and not a chippy steel and still easy to sharpen.

[Blerv]

It's a widely debated topic. The general answer is that high carbide steels will hold an edge (unless insanely thin) better than low carbide steels for things like cardboard. The flip side is they tend to be less tough and far more difficult to repair.

I'll let a more qualified member elaborate :) . Welcome to the forums!

[SmallBlock]

Thanks for the information.

[Cliff Stamp]

Im looking for a knife that will hold a supreme edge and take some heavy abuse as in a lot of heavy cutting through out the day.

What angles do you sharpen, what material are you cutting?

[KrisOK]

Actually, it doesn't have to be all that much more expensive to get a premium steel in a Spyderco. Check out the FRN Handled Native and the Delica/Endura. The native comes with CPM-S30V and the Delica/Endura line use VG-10. Both are great steels, and these knives won't break the bank.

[sal]

Hi Smallblock,

Welcome to our forum and thanx for visiting.

The world of steel is tall and wide with many caverns to explore. The learning is a slow process for many, but worth the effort.

sal

[dbcad]

Agreed :) The world of knife steels is huge :) None is "perfect" but each has it's own strengths. The choice of steel for any individual will depend on what you are cutting and how, relative sharpening skill, how well you look after your blades, the care you take when cutting.......The list could go on forever :eek:

I use VG-10 as my benchmark :) A bit better all around than 8Cr13. M390 is a bit of a monster :eek: Takes a very fine edge and keeps it well, SuperBlue the same :eek: However with the higher carbide steels more care has to be taken when cutting and preventing corrosion :eek:

[dbcad]

ZDP189 is also very good stuff, more difficult to sharpen :D 154CM and N690 seems to have properties similar to VG-10. S30V is terrific at holding a good edge but doesn't favor the edge being polished :)

Smallblock :) If you hang around here your questions will be answered over time :eek: just keep your mind open and your passion alive :D

[dialex]

They say 154CM is a great steel but frankly I'm not fond of it (or the ATS-34 which is basically the same thing). I'd take the good old trusty VG-10 over 154CM anytime. Heck, I'd preffer even the venerable ATS-55 instead.
Now you are saying that you want "a knife that will hold a supreme edge and take some heavy abuse as in a lot of heavy cutting through out the day". If corrosion resistance is not an issue, I'd advocate in favor of carbon steel. It's unexpensive, easy to sharpen, takes and holds a good edge and - this is hard to explain but it simply feels great.
I have knives in all sort of steels, some with premium grade stuff and I still love carbon steel. It's like an old friend you are always happy to meet and spend some quality time with...

[SmallBlock]

I hold my knives at about an 18* angle after I shape the blade to accept the angle. It usually takes anywhere from 15-45 minutes depending on the size of the blade and what shape it's in. Sometimes I'll get someones knife that has deep gashes in the blade where it looks like they tried to cut nails or something. But they can be fixed.

[razorsharp]

Of what is listed, m390 has the best edge retention, it will leave 8cr in the dust

[Cliff Stamp]

I hold my knives at about an 18* angle after I shape the blade to accept the angle.

At that high of an angle you will see higher edge retention at low sharpness levels from the higher carbide steels such as m390, assuming you are cutting normal type materials such as ropes, cardboard, woods, plastics and similar.

[Ankerson]

Im looking for a knife that will hold a supreme edge and take some heavy abuse as in a lot of heavy cutting through out the day.

What exactly do you mean?

What would you be cutting for the most part.

Heavy cutting?

[bdblue]

Im looking for a knife that will hold a supreme edge and take some heavy abuse as in a lot of heavy cutting through out the day.

154 is a good steel and should be one step above 8Cr13/Aus8/440C but it is somewhat ordinary these days. S30V should be a little better than 154 and it is the most common good steel in production knives. You asked about M390- it is one of the best stainless steels used in limited production knives these days and is priced accordingly, very hard to beat. Spyderco has used this steel in their knives in the past, as well as some other fairly exotic steels. Spyderco probably uses more different steels than any other company.

I have a lot of Spyderco knives as well as a lot of Benchmade knives, and generally they are worth the price.

If you are really interested in heavy abuse you might prefer a carbon steel such as M4. Spyderco and Benchmade both have a few models using this steel.

[Cheygriz]

As far as abrasion resistance, (edge holding) 154 CM is a quantum leap over AUS, 8CR VG10 and similar. S30V is....well.....I hate the stuff.

M390 and S90V are several orders of magnitude better than 154CM.

And the new Mules in K390 are another order of magnitude up the scale.

CPM M-4 and Elmax are both very good edge holders and not that hard to sharpen.

[Bladekeeper]

I started with a BM and didn't initially like the look of spydies .
Then I got the Tenacious and IMO its better than the griptillian I had .
I'd stick with spyderco get a VG10 blade or S30V if you want a superior steel .
Or a mule as has been suggested , for me out of my customs and productions the steel that has the best edge retention ?.
Without a doubt RWL-34 if spyderco did a MT in this I'd be ecstatic but if your adept at sharpening then a tenacious is all good too.
One YouTube video that sticks out in my mind is a guy cutting a shed load of rope with a Tenacious it does fantastic .