Spyderco Forums

Lately I've seen several knife companies using this old steel. Why?

If I remember right, it came out around World War I. The first time I saw it on a popular knife was the Bob Dozier line, they were/are simple and long lasting cutters. A knife maker said of it, (takes a lousy edge and holds it forever). :)
My only experence with D2 was a Queen Country Cousin which I carried about two minutes because the blade was ground so thick, it wouldn't cut very well and the backspring was a nail breaker. :D

I see Lion Steel, William Henry, HEST, some Boker, etc with it. Why?
I find it puzzling with all the super steels out there they would go back to this.

I persoanlly love D2 steel and I think it offers many desirable qualities that are found in the modern super steels (maybe not to their degree) as well as being very economical. It is very wear resdistant and doesn't scratch easily. I think the reason you are still seeing this being used speaks to the still desireable properties of the steel.

It's tough, wear resistant and pretty much stainless in comparison to most tool steels. CTS-XHP is just D2 with an extra couple points of chrome to make it officially stainless. It used to be called 440XH I believe. It has lots of carbon, can run up to rc 62-63 easily, or lower for more toughness. It does large chrome carbides and large grains pretty well, taking an edge very adept at skinning large animals with thick skin, and tough, dirt encrusted hair that has helped make Dozier one of the more well known knife makers.

It's still a very viable steel. Now 440C I don't say the same about. Never did like it much.

CTS-XHP is a very good steel too IMO.

Joe

Because it works :D It's an all-around good steel, not too hard to sharpen, and it's not absurdly expensive. Also, since it's been around for so long, makers have had a chance to use it for a while and get good at the heat treat (that's a guess).

Since you know it, may I ask. Does it get scary sharp? :) ....or does it loose that aggressiveness quickly and holding the "working edge" a long time?

gull wing wrote:Since you know it, may I ask. Does it get scary sharp? :) ....or does it loose that aggressiveness quickly and holding the "working edge" a long time?

I think that the CPM-D2 in the Paramilitary has very similar characteristics with S30V. I think it takes a nice scary sharp edge and that it loses that edge with some use, but the working edge last a while! I have been using a low grind on mine and a toothy (medium spyderco stone) microbevel. This lets me maintain my edge without having to redo my mirror bevel everytime I sharpen.

I don't know how it works on a cost-effective level but seems as it would be cheaper and easier to work with than some of the other high carbon tool steels (and a fraction of the HIGH carbon/vanadium SS ones). The CPM version is quite a bit more advanced.

Frankly with the cost of materials these days on of these "fancy" sprints I don't see why we don't see another CPM-D2 sprint with a good heat treat. No knock to Kabar or Dozier but a Native, Manix2 or Para2 done right would be a serious contender.

Blerv wrote:I don't know how it works on a cost-effective level but seems as it would be cheaper and easier to work with than some of the other high carbon tool steels (and a fraction of the HIGH carbon/vanadium SS ones). The CPM version is quite a bit more advanced.

Frankly with the cost of materials these days on of these "fancy" sprints I don't see why we don't see another CPM-D2 sprint with a good heat treat. No knock to Kabar or Dozier but a Native, Manix2 or Para2 done right would be a serious contender.

Don't get me wrong Blake... I would buy the **** out of another CPM-D2 sprint in any of the platforms you mentioned, but I think the introduction of XHP has phased CPM-D2 out for most production companies.

I don't have any D2, only CTS-XHP - but XHP takes a very sharp edge, holds it for a decent length of time (probably in the S30V range, but not M4), seems to be tough, and doesn't rust. D2 rusts some but less than 80-90% (maybe more) of established carbon/tool type steels. Also the Chromium, IIRC, might scavenge out some of the stronger carbides, leaving D2 potentially a little bit better at higher hardnesses (I know this is fuzzy wording but I mean that the carbides formed with chromium or because of chromium presence are not quite as heavy duty IIRC), so D2 sounds like a winner, particularly well-treated as Dozier or :spyder: would have it.

xceptnl wrote:Don't get me wrong Blake... I would buy the **** out of another CPM-D2 sprint in any of the platforms you mentioned, but I think the introduction of XHP has phased CPM-D2 out for most production companies.

I hear you :) . It would be interesting to see the cost to use it relative to the other steels on a higher volume basis. I guess the use of XHP vs S30v even comes down to the foundry they are working with on that particular model.

Frankly when it comes down to this steel or that steel unless the difference is characteristically off the charts (110v vs AUS6) most won't tell the difference in hand unless they are used to lab-style testing. Well, at least I won't...no offense to the more empathetic steel snobs out there. :)

Thank you to all who have responded, this sufficiently answers my question.
I think I'll try one, or make a blade myself and test it.

Blerv wrote:... Well, at least I won't...no offense to the more empathetic steel snobs out there. :)

No offense taken :D I think you are correct about the S30V vs XHP, aside from the hardcore forum members here most users will never be able to tell the difference.

I've got a Dozier and a Krein in D2...and they both came hair whittling sharp and stayed that way through some use. After that, they stayed user sharp for probably as long as S30V.

I think that like has been mentioned, people know how to get the best out of this steel and so it is a popular one with custom makers. Production companies are probably trying to get in on that popularity.

Blerv wrote: No knock to Kabar or Dozier but a Native... done right would be a serious contender.

Sweet! I'm in.

Ken

gull wing wrote:Thank you to all who have responded, this sufficiently answers my question.
I think I'll try one, or make a blade myself and test it.

I think I'm biased towards D2 because it's the most 'advanced' steel I've made a knife out of (vs. 440C and ATS-34). I don't have any blades in S30V, so I don't know how they compare.

ive been really impressed with my D2 para. Plus i have a soft spot for non-stainless steels

Not a fan of D2. I honestly find it a nightmare to resharpen or even maintain an edge.

gull wing wrote: My only experence with D2 was a Queen Country Cousin which I carried about two minutes because the blade was ground so thick, it wouldn't cut very well and the backspring was a nail breaker. :D

None of those issues are the fault of the steel itself but rather Queen's lacking attention in making the blade and controlling the quality. Trying a better made knife in D2 with good edge geometry would be worth it before you write the steel off entirely.

I'm finding this thread interesting because I'm considering getting a Queen, 3" closed pocket knife. The all wood handle caught my eye. But mainly it having D2, and the positive comments about Queen knives I've heard and read made me want to try their knives.
http://www.queencutlerycollectors.com/p ... Blade.html

I'm selling two Case pocket knives to fund this purchase. I like having a traditional pocket knife but the edge retention of the Case knives is somewhat lacking. They are nice little knives but I want to try this one. This is due to my raised expectations after using much better steels lately in Spyderco knives. One knife has Case's ss and the other has the CV (chrome vanadium) which is a carbon steel. I wanted my little traditional pocket knife to have better edge retention. I don't need it actually. I just want it. I've seen a lot of good comments about Queen's quality. Does anyone have any info on Queen's quality and any more about the heat treat of their blades, especially the D2? Mainly though, I'm interested in the D2 steel.

Jack

As far as I've read it's as all steels are subject to reaction to heat treat .
In the instance some steels still do ok with a ok HT where D2 doesn't.
However when done right is very good but this is learned information from other people's experiences .