Let me preface this post by saying I am new to owning pocket knives and I have never sharpened a knife before. I plan on keeping things simple/straightforward for the time being when it comes to sharpening so I can further acclimate myself into this practice. For that reason I am not seeking any advice about using strops or any other types of more advanced sharpening methods/accessories at this time.. I will be using the included medium/fine stones with the Sharpmaker.
I enjoy a sharp edge of course but I do not care for ridiculously sharp edges that I can cut myself with just by rubbing my finger over it. Sharp enough to shave hair and easily slice paper is enough for me. I have watched the Spyderco Sharpmaker Instructional Video 2x now. All that being said, here are my current questions that I'm looking for feedback/advice on:
1) Is it recommended that you wait for your edge to become sufficiently dull before sharpening it each time? I guess my question is about whether it's always necessary to cycle through both of the two different grade sharpening stones each time you want to sharpen your blade. For instance if my knife blade has only slightly dulled or lost it's sharpness, can I just work with the fine stones and bypass the medium grit stones? Or would it be better to allow the knife to dull some more and then always work with both sets of stones? It's not immediately clear to me how often to sharpen and whether it's always necessary to use both types of stones.
2) I plan on sharpening at the 40 degree angle to start (as Sal recommended). From what I gather from the video he suggested that every 10th time you sharpen to switch to the 30 degree angle? Did I understand that correctly? Can anyone give me an easy to understand explanation of the difference between sharpening at these two different angles? I'm more concerned about edge strength and retention than I am about sharpness / cutting power.
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For the record I use my knives for everyday/utilility type applications. Opening packages/boxes, letters, stuff around the house, etc. I do not do any heavy cutting with my knives. I will be sharpening the following blades/steels (I purchased all of these within the last 5 months so I haven't had to sharpen yet):
Manix 2 / S30V
Native 5 / S35VN
Manbug / VG-10
BM Mini-Grip / D2
I did watch one or two Sharpmaker videos from everyday users on Youtube. If anyone knows of any of these types of instructional videos that were helpful, please recommend them to me.
Sorry for the long post/thread and thanks in advance for your feedback for a rookie/novice user! I realize I will get better and more comfortable with sharpening only through practice - but I wanted to inquire about these questions regardless.
Cheers
-wolf
Sharpmaker Advice/Feedbck Needed (First time user)
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chuck_roxas45
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If you don't use your knife a lot, then a couple of strokes on the fine rods each day would be much better than waiting until your knife gets dull. Just touching up that edge daily will save you a ton of work if you let your knife get dull.
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Do not let edge get dull. Sharpmaker is a great tool to maintain the edge and not so great for reprofiling and repair. If the knife too dull to slice the paper, use sharpmaker.wolfgaze wrote: 1) Is it recommended that you wait for your edge to become sufficiently dull before sharpening it each time?
Do not pull tip across the rod. This will blunt the tip. When you are using corners, stop before you touch the tip. Sharpen tip only using flats, but do not let tip slide off rods.wolfgaze wrote: 2) Should the tip section of the blade be pulled across the width of the stone during the downward stroking motion?
You can use it as guideline. With reprofiling you are thinning out the edge. So, if you feel that it takes too many strokes to sharpen the knife or after sharpening it is not as sharp as used to be when it was knew, than it is time to reprofile.wolfgaze wrote: 3) every 10th time you sharpen to switch to the 30 degree angle?
And the last, but not the least. Read some materials about sharpening in general to understand, what is going on. It will help.
Do not hesitate to use search on this forum and on BF. Sharpening and all possible issues were discussed about a million time. All answers are there. If you cannot find, just ask. All of us were new at one time.
Good luck.
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf"
My top choices Natives5, Calys, C83 Persian
My top choices Natives5, Calys, C83 Persian
in addition,
the rods may need to be break in.
I got mine like two weeks ago.
I need to give couple tries to make my blade to razor sharp.
IMO, feel free to skip first step which is the corner of the coarse stone, useless you got micro chipped.
I got a 440c Cat, so the blade is very easy to get chipped, but 30 degree is already well enough to remove the chips.
the rods may need to be break in.
I got mine like two weeks ago.
I need to give couple tries to make my blade to razor sharp.
IMO, feel free to skip first step which is the corner of the coarse stone, useless you got micro chipped.
I got a 440c Cat, so the blade is very easy to get chipped, but 30 degree is already well enough to remove the chips.
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DJFrostbyte
- Member
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- Joined: Wed May 29, 2013 7:56 am
- Location: Houston Texas
My advice is as follows, take it for what its worth. :)
1.) It is always better and easier to sharpen a slightly dulled knife than I knife that has gone completely dull. If you allow you knife to become completely dull (i.e. practically unusable) then your sharpening time will be 10X what it should be and you will be forced to remove a great deal more metal before getting a workable edge again.
2.) Keep in mind that knives are tools, just like a screw driver. They are elegant however and do require some TLC. So frequent sharpening with the fine stones will keep your knife, and you, happy!
3.) Don't worry so much about angle at first. Focus more on technique and keeping your blade straight up and down through the whole pass. You want to start to feel like a machine. Really concentrate on this. This is essential to getting a good, even edge every time you use the sharp maker.
4.) It may be helpful to start out by using a cheaper knife or one that you don't care about so much. I remember when I first started sharpening I took a Kershaw Leek from adequately sharp to completely dull by "trying to sharpen it".
5.) Also, try not to be rushed. Don't sit down to sharpen a knife (no matter what its condition) when you have to leave for a dinner reservation in 15 minutes. Good sharpening will take time. Probably more than you expect. So take your time and be careful!
6.) Not sure if this is "advanced" or not, but you can try to use a sharpie marker and color your edge bevel on both sides (be careful to just get the edge). Then run the knife over your stones. You will see not only where the knife edge is making contact with the stone, but you will also be able to see if you are moving the knife away from perpendicular as you pass over the stone.
Good luck and enjoy the learning process. It does not happen over night and you will get frustrated at times (more than likely). Just keep trying/practicing.
Oh yeah, and also remember that certain steels are much harder than others. For example your VG-10 blade will be a great deal more easy to sharpen than your S30V, at least from my experience.
Best of luck,
Rob
1.) It is always better and easier to sharpen a slightly dulled knife than I knife that has gone completely dull. If you allow you knife to become completely dull (i.e. practically unusable) then your sharpening time will be 10X what it should be and you will be forced to remove a great deal more metal before getting a workable edge again.
2.) Keep in mind that knives are tools, just like a screw driver. They are elegant however and do require some TLC. So frequent sharpening with the fine stones will keep your knife, and you, happy!
3.) Don't worry so much about angle at first. Focus more on technique and keeping your blade straight up and down through the whole pass. You want to start to feel like a machine. Really concentrate on this. This is essential to getting a good, even edge every time you use the sharp maker.
4.) It may be helpful to start out by using a cheaper knife or one that you don't care about so much. I remember when I first started sharpening I took a Kershaw Leek from adequately sharp to completely dull by "trying to sharpen it".
5.) Also, try not to be rushed. Don't sit down to sharpen a knife (no matter what its condition) when you have to leave for a dinner reservation in 15 minutes. Good sharpening will take time. Probably more than you expect. So take your time and be careful!
6.) Not sure if this is "advanced" or not, but you can try to use a sharpie marker and color your edge bevel on both sides (be careful to just get the edge). Then run the knife over your stones. You will see not only where the knife edge is making contact with the stone, but you will also be able to see if you are moving the knife away from perpendicular as you pass over the stone.
Good luck and enjoy the learning process. It does not happen over night and you will get frustrated at times (more than likely). Just keep trying/practicing.
Oh yeah, and also remember that certain steels are much harder than others. For example your VG-10 blade will be a great deal more easy to sharpen than your S30V, at least from my experience.
Best of luck,
Rob
Endura 4 FFG - Delica 4 FFG - Sage 3 - Dragonfly Salt - Forum Native - Manix 2 LW - Manix 2 G10 - Tenacious - Persistence - Ambitious - Byrd Meadowlark G10 - Cat - C13 Pro Grip - Delica C11PBK - Atlantic Salt - Navigator - Para 2 Camo - Delica C11PBLE - White Endura Sprint - Mule MT05P - Delica 4 FFG - Salsa - Native 5 Ti - UKPK - Sage 1 - Dragonfly G10
+1 on magic marker.DJFrostbyte wrote: 6.) Not sure if this is "advanced" or not, but you can try to use a sharpie marker and color your edge bevel on both sides (be careful to just get the edge). Then run the knife over your stones. You will see not only where the knife edge is making contact with the stone, but you will also be able to see if you are moving the knife away from perpendicular as you pass over the stone.
In addition to magic marker you will need 10x or better eye louple.
Also when you sharpening with sharpmaker, do not apply a lot of pressure (2-3 lb max), especially when you are using corners. Basically applying a lot of pressure, when you use corners will bent the edge back and force and as a result you will fatigue steel on the edge. So do not do this. Finishing strokes on each rod should be light. After medium flats you should be able to shave.
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf"
My top choices Natives5, Calys, C83 Persian
My top choices Natives5, Calys, C83 Persian
as others noted:
1. definitly use the "Sharpie trick"
2. find some type of magnification to observe your progress, and help you figure out what is happening "at the edge". (many use a loupe, I have a $12 "pocket microscope" from Radio Shack, that while a but cumbersome to start out with, has served me quite well...)
3. technique! developing good habits now, will save you much frustration later. (primarily, hold the knife vertically, and DON'T pull the tip off the rods)
4. try to visualize what is happening at the edge, and what you are trying to do... create a clean apex...
5. last strokes in the progression should get lighter and lighter in pressure.
hope this helps.
1. definitly use the "Sharpie trick"
2. find some type of magnification to observe your progress, and help you figure out what is happening "at the edge". (many use a loupe, I have a $12 "pocket microscope" from Radio Shack, that while a but cumbersome to start out with, has served me quite well...)
3. technique! developing good habits now, will save you much frustration later. (primarily, hold the knife vertically, and DON'T pull the tip off the rods)
4. try to visualize what is happening at the edge, and what you are trying to do... create a clean apex...
5. last strokes in the progression should get lighter and lighter in pressure.
hope this helps.
Congrats Wolf :) Sharpening your own really helps you appreciate and feel good about your knives :D
All of the above points are terrific :) and show insight :)
I've found it helpful to use the SM while standing at a workbench or kitchen counter. For me it helps with achieving vertical consistency.
If you ever feel yourself getting frustrated when sharpening, stop! :eek: ! Only start again when calm and relaxed~~~~ :)
Wish you the best Wolf, The folks here taught me how to sharpen :)
All of the above points are terrific :) and show insight :)
I've found it helpful to use the SM while standing at a workbench or kitchen counter. For me it helps with achieving vertical consistency.
If you ever feel yourself getting frustrated when sharpening, stop! :eek: ! Only start again when calm and relaxed~~~~ :)
Wish you the best Wolf, The folks here taught me how to sharpen :)
Charlie
" Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not one bit simpler."
[CENTER]"Integrity is being good even if no one is watching"[/CENTER]
" Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not one bit simpler."
[CENTER]"Integrity is being good even if no one is watching"[/CENTER]
Congratulations on your purchase of the Spyderco Sharpmaker!
All of the advice noted above is spot on. The only thing I can add that has helped me is not only should you stand up on your feet when using the Sharpmaker, but you should also move the Sharpmaker until the edge of the tool lines up with the edge of the workbench, kitchen counter, etc. For me, I find this brings the Sharpmaker closer to you so you can achieve a more consistent vertical draw of the knife edge down the the stones, allows you to look straight down upon the back of your knife to ensure it is as straight up and down vertical as possible, and it places less stress and fatigue on the hand you're using to hold the Sharpmaker firmly onto the work surface. I find all of these factors combined together help to ensure consistency in your sharpening technique.
Now, I understand and certainly concur with your desire to keep things simple and not go into strops, advanced techniques, or other things that'll make your knife super sharp... all that said, for knives that do get dull because you have to use them and don't have a chance to maintain them as noted by others above, an investment in the Spyderco Diamond Tri-Angle Stones is worth considering. When a knife is so dull that it laughs at the Spyderco Brown Tri-Angle Stones, it takes the Diamond Tri-Angle Stones to smack that smirk off that knife's dull edge to the point that the Brown Tri-Angle Stones can do their job.
Hope that helps.
All of the advice noted above is spot on. The only thing I can add that has helped me is not only should you stand up on your feet when using the Sharpmaker, but you should also move the Sharpmaker until the edge of the tool lines up with the edge of the workbench, kitchen counter, etc. For me, I find this brings the Sharpmaker closer to you so you can achieve a more consistent vertical draw of the knife edge down the the stones, allows you to look straight down upon the back of your knife to ensure it is as straight up and down vertical as possible, and it places less stress and fatigue on the hand you're using to hold the Sharpmaker firmly onto the work surface. I find all of these factors combined together help to ensure consistency in your sharpening technique.
Now, I understand and certainly concur with your desire to keep things simple and not go into strops, advanced techniques, or other things that'll make your knife super sharp... all that said, for knives that do get dull because you have to use them and don't have a chance to maintain them as noted by others above, an investment in the Spyderco Diamond Tri-Angle Stones is worth considering. When a knife is so dull that it laughs at the Spyderco Brown Tri-Angle Stones, it takes the Diamond Tri-Angle Stones to smack that smirk off that knife's dull edge to the point that the Brown Tri-Angle Stones can do their job.
Hope that helps.
Spyderco WTC #1044
“Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.” George Santayana, The Life of Reason: The Phases of Human Progress, 1905 to 1906
NEVER FORGET!!!
“Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.” George Santayana, The Life of Reason: The Phases of Human Progress, 1905 to 1906
NEVER FORGET!!!
Also, one other detail that I wish I understood sooner when I was first learning...
There is a huge difference between "sharpening", and "re-profiling" !! Especially with the Sharpmaker.
Spyderco knives are sharpened at the factory by hand, so there is inherantly some variance in the final angle that arrives on a given knife, some under 30°, some just over 30°... if you have to re-profile one that is just over, so you can get to the edge, it can take a lot longer than the 20 stroke progression for sharpening... BUT, you will only have to do that once on a given knife. If you find yourself in this situation, just be patient, it can be done on the Sharpmaker, it just takes time.
There is a huge difference between "sharpening", and "re-profiling" !! Especially with the Sharpmaker.
Spyderco knives are sharpened at the factory by hand, so there is inherantly some variance in the final angle that arrives on a given knife, some under 30°, some just over 30°... if you have to re-profile one that is just over, so you can get to the edge, it can take a lot longer than the 20 stroke progression for sharpening... BUT, you will only have to do that once on a given knife. If you find yourself in this situation, just be patient, it can be done on the Sharpmaker, it just takes time.
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Robert Ptacek
- Member
- Posts: 75
- Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2008 8:47 am
Thanks for the continued responses... I'm going to ask some more questions....
Suppose I decide I'm going to maintain my edge more frequently using the fine-grit stones, how do I know whether I should be using the corners of the stones as opposed to the flat sides of the stones? I understand the instructions take you through the logical progression of sharpening a dulled blade but I'm just curious when to be using which portions of the sharpening stones if I'm doing frequent maintenance. If the edge is already fairly sharp I suppose I would bypass the corner side of the fine-grit stones and sharpen on the flat section?
Suppose I decide I'm going to maintain my edge more frequently using the fine-grit stones, how do I know whether I should be using the corners of the stones as opposed to the flat sides of the stones? I understand the instructions take you through the logical progression of sharpening a dulled blade but I'm just curious when to be using which portions of the sharpening stones if I'm doing frequent maintenance. If the edge is already fairly sharp I suppose I would bypass the corner side of the fine-grit stones and sharpen on the flat section?
Hi Matt, how would I know if I needed to re-profile one of my blades? Can you go into more detail about this for a novice like myself?mattman wrote: There is a huge difference between "sharpening", and "re-profiling" !! Especially with the Sharpmaker.
Spyderco knives are sharpened at the factory by hand, so there is inherantly some variance in the final angle that arrives on a given knife, some under 30°, some just over 30°... if you have to re-profile one that is just over, so you can get to the edge, it can take a lot longer than the 20 stroke progression for sharpening... BUT, you will only have to do that once on a given knife. If you find yourself in this situation, just be patient, it can be done on the Sharpmaker, it just takes time.
Thanks.
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jackknifeh
- Member
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- Joined: Fri Jul 09, 2010 6:01 am
- Location: Florida panhandle
wolfgaze wrote:Last question for now.... If I decide to pick up the ultra-fine grit stones. After I finish sharpening with the fine-grit stones, is it necessary to sharpen on the corners of the ultra-fine grit stones and then switch to the flat side in the same manner that is recommended with the other stones?
I think you may have gotten yourself into trouble in less than one page of a thread in this forum. :) At first you wanted to be able to shave your arm and slice paper. Now you are asking about the UF stones. :D That is definately getting into the finer points and results of sharpening. Believe me, it's as easy to get hooked on sharpening as it is to buying more knives. Truthfully, I wouldn't get the UF stones until you have gotten very good with the fine stones. They are more than enough to get your knife PLENTY sharp for any EDC situation. Of course if you want them get them. It's just I believe your consistancy will need to be better before the UF (or any VERY fine grit stone) will be of any benefit. If you want to get the edge sharper and sooner I think you'll get that result with a strop. They require a little practice just like stones but I think you will get a super razor sharp edge faster by using a strop than you will by getting the UF stones. There are other issues with strops that I doubt if you want to get into. But I do think you will see benefits from a strop at this point in your learning and ultra fine grit stones will not do you any good. I say that because all my life I could get a knife very sharp using a medium grit stone. When I tried the fine grit stone my edge would get duller. My problem was lack of knowledge and lack of patience.
Have fun and good luck.
Lots of good questions, but I echo what Jackknifeh is trying to get across to you... you're starting to get ahead of yourself and you may be making this far more complicated than you need to or are ready for. Stick with your original game plan of mastering the Spyderco Brown and White Tri-Angle Stones that come with the Spyderco Sharpmaker. Once that is accomplished THEN move on to other aspects of sharpening.
I CONCUR with Jackknifeh... when I purchased and used the Spyderco Ultra-Fine Tri-Angle Stones, I actually ruined the nice, sharp edges I'd achieved after going through the Spyderco Diamond, Brown, and White Tri-Angle Stones. Personally... I say again... PERSONALLY, all I need is the Diamond Tri-Angle Stones to rescue a horribly dulled edge to the point where the original Brown and White Tri-Angle Stones that come with the Sharpmaker can do their thing. Personally, I DON'T WANT a super sharp edge because I've found that dulls faster than a good, stout sharp edge. Mind you this is my personal opinion and preference, but I recommend that you take it into consideration as part of your overall decision-making process.
As far as when a knife must be reprofiled... I've found from experience that when you reach the point that either the knife edge dulls quickly after sharpening and use, or you can't seem to get the edge to sharpen although you've been able to time and time again, or you find the edge is sharp on one side but not the other, even though you'd been consistently getting both sides sharp before... these for me have been personal indicators that perhaps it's time to reprofile the knife. Again, that's how I base when it's time to reprofile. It may be different for you and others on this Forum.
Over the past 16 years, I've been able to meet my sharpening needs with the Sharpmaker along with the Diamond, Brown, and White Tri-Angle Stones. I get the required results I need to get my cutting chores done. I've had no need for anything else but these items, and I'm very satisfied. Again, yours and others preferences may vary.
I CONCUR with Jackknifeh... when I purchased and used the Spyderco Ultra-Fine Tri-Angle Stones, I actually ruined the nice, sharp edges I'd achieved after going through the Spyderco Diamond, Brown, and White Tri-Angle Stones. Personally... I say again... PERSONALLY, all I need is the Diamond Tri-Angle Stones to rescue a horribly dulled edge to the point where the original Brown and White Tri-Angle Stones that come with the Sharpmaker can do their thing. Personally, I DON'T WANT a super sharp edge because I've found that dulls faster than a good, stout sharp edge. Mind you this is my personal opinion and preference, but I recommend that you take it into consideration as part of your overall decision-making process.
As far as when a knife must be reprofiled... I've found from experience that when you reach the point that either the knife edge dulls quickly after sharpening and use, or you can't seem to get the edge to sharpen although you've been able to time and time again, or you find the edge is sharp on one side but not the other, even though you'd been consistently getting both sides sharp before... these for me have been personal indicators that perhaps it's time to reprofile the knife. Again, that's how I base when it's time to reprofile. It may be different for you and others on this Forum.
Over the past 16 years, I've been able to meet my sharpening needs with the Sharpmaker along with the Diamond, Brown, and White Tri-Angle Stones. I get the required results I need to get my cutting chores done. I've had no need for anything else but these items, and I'm very satisfied. Again, yours and others preferences may vary.
Spyderco WTC #1044
“Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.” George Santayana, The Life of Reason: The Phases of Human Progress, 1905 to 1906
NEVER FORGET!!!
“Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.” George Santayana, The Life of Reason: The Phases of Human Progress, 1905 to 1906
NEVER FORGET!!!
Thanks for the extremely helpful replies JackKnifeh & Waterbug, much appreciated!
You are right in that sometimes I get ahead of myself, heh. If there's been one reoccuring theme in my life it's that I always feel a bit timid and in the dark when I'm dealing with something new and foreign to me - especially when it involves tools or any type of manual handy work.
I started using the fine-grit stones 2 nights ago on my Manix 2. Had to clean the stones already last night and then I received my Native 5 today and ran that on the Sharpmaker a tiny bit to touch up the blade. So far so good.
Question, what happens if you run the knife for too long on one of the stones. Will it keep taking metal off with continued strokes or will it stop removing metal once the blade has reached a particular degree of sharpness in relation to the grit of the stone that's being utilized?
You are right in that sometimes I get ahead of myself, heh. If there's been one reoccuring theme in my life it's that I always feel a bit timid and in the dark when I'm dealing with something new and foreign to me - especially when it involves tools or any type of manual handy work.
I started using the fine-grit stones 2 nights ago on my Manix 2. Had to clean the stones already last night and then I received my Native 5 today and ran that on the Sharpmaker a tiny bit to touch up the blade. So far so good.
Question, what happens if you run the knife for too long on one of the stones. Will it keep taking metal off with continued strokes or will it stop removing metal once the blade has reached a particular degree of sharpness in relation to the grit of the stone that's being utilized?
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jackknifeh
- Member
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- Joined: Fri Jul 09, 2010 6:01 am
- Location: Florida panhandle
Every stroke will remove steel. The amount removed will be determined by the grit of the stone and the amount of pressure you use. When the edge is sharp enough it's time to stop. I started wanting to improve my sharpening skills about 5 years ago and removed enough steel from a couple of knives that it was obvious if you looked at an advertising picture of a new knife and mine. A lot of this removal was due to experimenting with changing the edge angles but still, the steel was gone. This is a good reason to do any "practicing" on cheaper knives. Also, when the edge is sharp it may only take one inaccurate stroke to make it duller again. Then you need to correct for that. I'd suggesst getting a few paring knives at the Dollar Store to practice on.wolfgaze wrote:Thanks for the extremely helpful replies JackKnifeh & Waterbug, much appreciated!
You are right in that sometimes I get ahead of myself, heh. If there's been one reoccuring theme in my life it's that I always feel a bit timid and in the dark when I'm dealing with something new and foreign to me - especially when it involves tools or any type of manual handy work.
I started using the fine-grit stones 2 nights ago on my Manix 2. Had to clean the stones already last night and then I received my Native 5 today and ran that on the Sharpmaker a tiny bit to touch up the blade. So far so good.
Question, what happens if you run the knife for too long on one of the stones. Will it keep taking metal off with continued strokes or will it stop removing metal once the blade has reached a particular degree of sharpness in relation to the grit of the stone that's being utilized?
The easiest way to get and maintain a sharp edge is to use both angles on the sharpmaker. Take as much time as it takes to get a consistant edge at the 30 degree angle. Then use the 40 degree setting to put the actual sharp edge. When removing steel from a wide, flat bevel less steel is removed per stroke. However, when you change the angle the stones will hit a very narrow section of steel and produce results quicker. I hope this is making sense. My explanation may not be the best.
Think about a knife edge like this. The sharp edge is inside every blade. You just need to remove the steel that isn't a part of that edge.
Jack