Spyderco Forums

As some of you may recall quite a while ago I came up with the idea of dropping a zirconium oxide (white ceramic) bearing ball into spyderco's bearing lock mechanism. Being an admittedly logical evolution I spent some time digging around to see if someone had done it before me. The closest I found was vieli's phoenix with a semi-precious stone for the ball iirc. So being apparently the first I coined it the lightning mod, and posted it on this forum. Surprised I was then when I discovered that without so much as a nod spyderco is now using this idea in their new run of carbon fiber dodos. What gives Sal? From a company that usually seems to give credit where its due I would have expected a phone call at least. Was this a simple oversight?

*edit*
To prevent further misinterpretation of the tone of this post, I'm adding a few smiley icons:
:) :o :D :p :D :o

is this a joke?

I don't understand.

Although I'm a newbie I'm a member of a forum where sal frequents and Everytime somebody has suggested an idea that sal likes or plans to try he requests permission etc.
Having not read the thread I can only imagine that it wasn't noticed or somebody else had already had this in the works , I don't see that sal is going to take the time to personally reply to others that have had similar suggestions but not do the same , if however you contemplate the amount of people forwarding ideas then considering the schedule sal has it would be impossible to find every idea put forward.
However if you spent time , researching and plugging this idea I can understand but I'm sure sal will reply when he can.

Really? It has been done by many people. Not just you.

Sorry to hear your comments . Regards MG2

This oughtta be good...

Jay_Ev wrote:This oughtta be good...

Why don't you, and everyone else, refrain from counterproductive trolling. I'd expect such from new members, you've been here a while and know better. This isn't an ugly uncivilized common forum.


And as to the "this has been done before arguments" I honestly would very much like to see it. As I said in the op I looked at the time, but its always possible I missed something. Let mew know if you can find one which pre-dates this:
http://www.spyderco.com/forums/showthre ... htning+mod

And one final thing: I recognize convergent evolution, and indicated such in the op, which is part of why I posted this in case it wasn't clear.

Threads mentioning prototypes with ceramic bearings predate your suggestion by over three years, as can be seen in this post (referencing Eric's ball lock design) from 2008:

Mr Blonde wrote:At least the ball in the ball lock can be ceramic. I've seen a concept model or two with a ceramic ball in it, very cool stuff.

Wouter

In fact, in your very own lightning mod thread, Mr Blonde mentions the pre-existing ceramic balls:

Mr Blonde wrote:Cool mod, IIRC Spyderco tinkered with the idea of using ceramic balls in the ball lock of a concept model Dodo (many years ago). Do ceramic balls come in bright colors or GITD? That would be a cool looking option on a ball lock IMO.

...and The Deacon recalls it being done as early as 2004:

The Deacon wrote:Neat.

First time I ever saw that mod was in 2004 at the Spyderco booth at the NYCKS. There was a local (NYC) gentleman with a truly impressive handlebar mustache who use to work the show with them and he had a Dodo that was customized with a ceramic ball bearing.

Wonderful. Thank you jabba359. Thats what I needed to hear. :) I knew if I posted here someone would have the answer. Somehow I missed the post in my original thread even. Like I said in the op I knew things other than steel had been used, but I couldn't find a reference on ceramic.

Please don't be quick to assume about Spydercos practices.

hunterseeker5 wrote:Why don't you, and everyone else, refrain from counterproductive trolling. I'd expect such from new members, you've been here a while and know better. This isn't an ugly uncivilized common forum.

You are correct. My apologies. No ill will intended.

DedRok wrote:Please don't be quick to assume about Spydercos practices.

Heh I was about to respond, and when I clicked reply with quotes and noticed it pulled up something different I saw you had edited your post. Let me then reply to what has been quoted rather than your original statement.

I have not, and will not, be quick to assume about spyderco's practices and overall business ethics. I have for the longest time now, and continue to, hold spyderco in the highest regard for their incessant demonstrations of some of the most ethical and exemplary business practices I have ever seen. They, in all instances of which I am currently aware, have given credit where its due, helped customers resolve issues often when it is of the customer's own making, and as someone who has had the privilege to work on projects with spyderco directly I can say that with my limited window into their world what happens behind the scenes is no exception. This is why my OP, which perhaps didn't portray my emotion as it should have, I was surprised to say the least. I honestly, at the initial time of research, could not find an example of this modification having been done and believed myself to be the first. What perhaps came across as anger or such, was actually simple surprise that something like this could have happened given that I know Spyderco knows how to get a hold of me if they want to. So let me apologize to anyone who found my OP offensive, or otherwise interpreted the tone as nasty and confrontational. I meant no such transgression. :) This is why forums should have software to automatically insert smilies into all posts, it makes it seem like everyone is smiling and things are interpreted more positively.

Many other companies do not host forums like this which retain the really knowledgeable and generous users who make the forum a lively and wonderful place to be. Likewise they don't bother to participate themselves in the same positive manner spyderco does here. Make no mistake, there are other companies where had I perceived use of one of my ideas or have outright infringed on my intellectual property, posting a thread for public consumption wouldn't have been my course of action. I try to engage spyderco, sometimes directly and sometimes via the forums, not because of any dislike or anger, but because of how special spyderco is and how much I like them.

Jay_Ev wrote:You are correct. My apologies. No ill will intended.

No worries Jay. Its been my understanding that tensions have been running a bit high around here as of late, and on BF as well, due to the recent releases of two models not to be named. (which if we could PLEASE keep from discussing in this thread that'd be really really great) :) I know you're one of the good guys around here, and as a mod on forums elsewhere I also know how circumstances or sometimes just a little mental flatulence, can lead to something not quite intended the way it was meant or otherwise, to borrow a phrase, "not optimal." Keep the dancing banana, and don't forget that you're one of the old-timers that makes this forum such a great place. :D

I'm glad you posted your original lightning mod thread because I had some mod ideas for my Phoenix and think the black pearl ball would fit with the design nicely. One day I'll get around to doing it...

jabba359 wrote:I'm glad you posted your original lightning mod thread because I had some mod ideas for my Phoenix and think the black pearl ball would fit with the design nicely. One day I'll get around to doing it...

Its a shame the originally hosted images are down. Image hosting is a PITA. If anyone wants the original images shoot me an email and I'll send 'em over. One other thing though: MEASURE YOUR BEARING BALL. I'm 99% sure that the Phoenix uses a different ball spec than the Manix, and I know the poliwog does.

Next time, instead of accusing people you respect of doing something improper, why don't you ask politely?
You can get people on your side much quicker if you don't insult the most important figure on this forum.

I saw your latest post where you apologized because there were examples of your idea, far before you had it.
It's great that you apologized, but creating a thread that directly questions Sal's/Spyderco's honor might deserve a bit more than a "oops, my bad".


Anyway, it is a neat idea. I hope you continue you share your ideas with the forum. :D
We all make mistakes. I know I do. (rarely) :cool:

My advice to you, if you think of something else in future, patent it. Reading the comments, it is clear that you have not patented this.

A patent has to be NON OBVIOUS and changing to a harder material for a ball bearing is BLATANTLY OBVIOUS. The only thing patentable here is the material composition of the ball. Using alumina balls is especially obvious for a company with DEEP TIES to COORSTEK: an industrial and laboratory-grade ceramics company that makes high-quality alumina ceramics. Where do you think Spyderco gets their files and rods? Right next door. It's the same place I order laboratory crucibles for doing my SolidState Chemistry.

FWIW, I visited the Spyderco booth at the NYCKS in 2004. Back then there was a gentleman with a huge handlebar moustache whose name escapes me right now but, from what I was told, he helped out regularly when they attended shows in NYC. At any rate, he was showing off his personal Dodo, which he'd modified by replacing the steel ball with a ceramic one. So, not that they need it, but in defense of Spyderco the idea is not new and both Sal and Eric were aware of it at least eight years ago.

Wonder what the stress tolerance levels are with ceramic, the types mentioned above.