Shootout: M390 vs S90V CF Military's Edge retention on 5/8" Manila rope
Shootout: M390 vs S90V CF Military's Edge retention on 5/8" Manila rope
Been wanting to do this for awhile, a direct straight edge retention comparison between these two steels. They are very close in performance, closer than some would believe. Both knives are CF Sprint run Military's sharpened to 400 grit Congress Moldmaster finish at 15 degrees per side. This leaves IMO the optimal edge finish for maximum edge retention and cutting efficiency.
The Test:
Slicing 5/8" Manila rope checking every 20 cuts for down force and cutting was continued until 20 LBS was reached. Starting force was 11 LBS for both knives and after 20 cuts both knives were at 14 LBS.
The Steels:
M390
C - 1.9%
Mo - 1.0%
Si - .70%
W - .60%
Cr - 20%
Mn - .30%
V - 4.0%
CPM S90V
C - 2.30%
Mo - 1.0%
Cr - 14.0%
V - 9.0%
M390
Cut aggressive with the edge finish and took some edge damage as expected as all steels have, it was still sharp enough to slice printer paper after testing.
CPM S90V
Very Aggressive with the edge finish and as with M390 it took some edge damage, but slightly less. Sharp enough to slice printer paper after testing.
Knives together.
Results:
Both knives performed extremely well as expected with S90V over M390 in the end by 21% or 460 to 380 cuts.
Very close as I expected it to be, under normal use most wouldn't be able to tell them apart depending on actual use unless they were pushed to the limit of edge retention. In that case the added Vanadium content of S90V at 9% over M390 at 4% would take over.
The Test:
Slicing 5/8" Manila rope checking every 20 cuts for down force and cutting was continued until 20 LBS was reached. Starting force was 11 LBS for both knives and after 20 cuts both knives were at 14 LBS.
The Steels:
M390
C - 1.9%
Mo - 1.0%
Si - .70%
W - .60%
Cr - 20%
Mn - .30%
V - 4.0%
CPM S90V
C - 2.30%
Mo - 1.0%
Cr - 14.0%
V - 9.0%
M390
Cut aggressive with the edge finish and took some edge damage as expected as all steels have, it was still sharp enough to slice printer paper after testing.
CPM S90V
Very Aggressive with the edge finish and as with M390 it took some edge damage, but slightly less. Sharp enough to slice printer paper after testing.
Knives together.
Results:
Both knives performed extremely well as expected with S90V over M390 in the end by 21% or 460 to 380 cuts.
Very close as I expected it to be, under normal use most wouldn't be able to tell them apart depending on actual use unless they were pushed to the limit of edge retention. In that case the added Vanadium content of S90V at 9% over M390 at 4% would take over.
21% is not insignificant. Not sure how big a difference would have to be for a user to detect in real world conditions, more than that, I agree.
UKPK G10, UKPK Ti, Para 2CF&20CP, Stretch CF, Stretch CF conv, Manix2 M4,Endura Wave, Endura ZDP189, Pacific Salt, Captain, Gunting S30v, P'Kal, Gayle Bradley,Atlantic Salt, Spyderhawk, Crossbill, Wings slipit
Mules: CTSBD1, Super Blue, S90V, VG10, S35VN, Cos-3, M390 Fixed: Bushcraft, Warrior
Mules: CTSBD1, Super Blue, S90V, VG10, S35VN, Cos-3, M390 Fixed: Bushcraft, Warrior
sal wrote:Nicely done Jim.
Those vanadium carbides do help with longevity.
It's a run game to watch foundries race, jump higher and run faster so we can improve the "edge".
sal
sal
Hi Sal,
Thanks. :)
It's been a long time coming and I wanted to use Military's to do it to give both the best chance at high performance and to keep the variables down. :)
Turned out as expected when they are pushed to their limit. :spyder:
The question is, how different are the two from a sharpening standpoint? How much work does it take to reprofile the two? I came to this conclusion that for me these higher end steels are a bit of a waste since i don't mind touching up my edge everyday (i'm a sucker for that fresh off the stone edge) so if i could get this close to S90V performance and spend less time working on the bevels to keep them there, then i'd be very interested.
All SE all the time since 2017
~David
~David
A lot will depend on what you are sharpening with, but in general say in reprofiling or repairing S90V is noticeably harder to work with.Evil D wrote:The question is, how different are the two from a sharpening standpoint? How much work does it take to reprofile the two? I came to this conclusion that for me these higher end steels are a bit of a waste since i don't mind touching up my edge everyday (i'm a sucker for that fresh off the stone edge) so if i could get this close to S90V performance and spend less time working on the bevels to keep them there, then i'd be very interested.
Basic sharpening, neither is too bad with M390 being easier.
That's depending on what one is using as I said.
You will be fine with either, M390 will take less time to get screaming sharp than S90V (20CP).Evil D wrote:I'm using an Edge Pro with the standard stones it came with. I was concerned about 20CP but i found it to be quite easy to reprofile with the 120 stone, but it does seem to require a bit more attention at the very edge to get it as sharp as S30V.
M390 will take a blow your mind edge...
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Very nice write up! Thank you for taking the time to put it all together and present it here. :)
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Work EDC List
FRP: Nisjin Cricket PE, Manbug PE, Dragonfly PE
FLP: SS Cricket SE, byrd Flatbyrd CE
BRP: CF Military S90V
BLP: Forum S110V Native
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Work EDC List
FRP: Nisjin Cricket PE, Manbug PE, Dragonfly PE
FLP: SS Cricket SE, byrd Flatbyrd CE
BRP: CF Military S90V
BLP: Forum S110V Native
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Excellent steels all of them. :)SteelSnob wrote:VERY cool. I love the M390 Millie, and wish I had an S90V one also. I will say that M390/20CV is still my favorite steel to date. Thanks Jim! :)
Thanks. :)ChapmanPreferred wrote:Very nice write up! Thank you for taking the time to put it all together and present it here. :)
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- Brock O Lee
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Thanks for the test, it must have been tough on the arm... :)
I like both, but prefer M390 for its easier sharpening. Its also a little bit tougher than S90v at the same hardness, with better corrosion resistance, so IMHO its a slightly better all rounder.
I like both, but prefer M390 for its easier sharpening. Its also a little bit tougher than S90v at the same hardness, with better corrosion resistance, so IMHO its a slightly better all rounder.
Hans
Favourite Spydies: Military, PM2, Shaman, UKPK
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Favourite Spydies: Military, PM2, Shaman, UKPK
Others: Victorinox Pioneer, CRK L Sebenza 31, CRK L Inkosi
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Interesting. Thanks, Jim. The 21% gives some perspective on the categories in your review on BF. If I recall correctly, one S90v knife came in a category lower than M390 and another s90v, due to a minor difference in RC. Prior to this post, I had not wrapped my head around how important RC and how much variation in edge retention that may result. Thanks again.
Have 2 here in S30V, haven't planned on it, I could do one between S30V and XHP. :)DeathBySnooSnoo wrote:Thanks for that test Jim. 21% is a lot...but like you said, not a lot compared to 400%. Have you done the same test, head to head, with a S30V Military?
Hmm, I think that it is time for a 20CV Military.
Not sure of the hardness on the M390 knife, the S90V knife is at 60 HRC.Jurisprudence wrote:Interesting. Thanks, Jim. The 21% gives some perspective on the categories in your review on BF. If I recall correctly, one S90v knife came in a category lower than M390 and another s90v, due to a minor difference in RC. Prior to this post, I had not wrapped my head around how important RC and how much variation in edge retention that may result. Thanks again.