Balisong (Butterfly) Knife as SD Tool

[cesar]

Hi everybody!

Just start this thread to know the opinion of the folks about balisong knife in Self Defense. This is a traditional phillipino knife, very popular because the flips and movements it is able to perform.

I am listing some pros and cons to start the thread:

PROS
- Fast opening
- Useful as impact tool
- Easier to conceal
- More aggressive look
- Flawless locking when opened and safer closed

CONS
- Marginal look
- Grip not too safe compared with G10 or other handle materials
- Flip moves may do the knife fly away
- Make much noise to open or to close (stealth mode off)
- May bit the owner if holded by wrong handle

Just to be fair with amount of pros and cons.

May I have your opinions?

Thanks!

[Evil D]

I think faster opening is highly highly debatable. By the time you get your bali out of your pocket and unlocked, i'll have drawn my knife and thumbed it open before your first flippy move. I also think that in the real world, while you're doing all those flippy tricks, the enemy is either shooting you or stabbing you with his knife that he drew and opened faster. I really don't understand why balis are illegal in so many places, i don't see much tactical advantage over a knife like a Para 2.

[cesar]

I also think that in the real world, while you're doing all those flippy tricks, the enemy is either shooting you or stabbing you with his knife that he drew and opened faster.

Ok... I agree if you start to make tricks with balisong in a fight. I do not mean that. I also do not mean faster opening aways, but fast opening only, and you may agree that balisong opens fast one handed (watch Mike Janich Balisong DVD 1st part). I can bet that a trained balisong user can open it faster compared to a folder. In reverse grip, you can take the same effect than the Emerson Wave using a balisong, just grabbing and deploying it by the latch out of the pocket.

But thank you very much! This thread is not to see who is right or wrong, just to get your opinion!

[Gunslinger]

Compared to all the offerings in self defence knives, I think Balisongs are at the bottom of my list. In a defence situation, do you think you will have the fine motorskills to flip your Balisong open without error?
I'll stick with something a little more simple.

[SolidState]

I'm pretty good at bali quickdraws, and latch drops but they're still way slower than an emerson opener. I also like a handle that won't try to dislodge and close the blade on my knuckles if stricken from behind for SD purposes.

[w3tnz]

Compared to all the offerings in self defence knives, I think Balisongs are at the bottom of my list. In a defence situation, do you think you will have the fine motorskills to flip your Balisong open without error?
I'll stick with something a little more simple.

Totally agree with this, I would NOT be picking up a balisong for SD, waved openers will be quicker than anything bar a fixed blade as the motion of removing the knife also opens it, there is waaaay too much room for error with a bali, I don't care who's wielding it.
IRL sd situation I would be grabbing a baseball bat, machete or kitchen knife. (obviously guns for those who have them)

[Blerv]

Marginal at best comparatively. Given the time released it was a locking folder of simplistic design. Now it's more flair than anything. IMHO

Since Spyderco doesn't make any this really is more off-topic oriented.

[chuck_roxas45]

Carried a bali since college. It's not very fast from draw to opened. If it's in hand already, it can be a fast opener. Just like any strong knife, it's the best knife for SD if it's what you have with you when you need it.

[defenestrate]

I would give the balisong marks on intimidation factor and strength of lock (a good bali in a firm grip is pretty solid), things like grippiness and ergos of blade are highly variable.

[FroOchie]

I would give the balisong marks on intimidation factor

Seriously... someone that knows how to flip one properly would give me second thoughts of wanting to scrap with them.

[Blerv]

I really don't understand why balis are illegal in so many places, i don't see much tactical advantage over a knife like a Para 2.

Same reason ninja stars, and nunchucks are. 1980's dbags on the ninja bandwagon.

I believe balisongs and brass knuckles were attributed to gang behavior was more severe (mentally) than the actual use of the tool. I'm surprised they didn't outlaw tattoos and denim jackets as well.

[chuck_roxas45]

Same reason ninja stars, and nunchucks are. 1980's dbags on the ninja bandwagon.

I believe balisongs and brass knuckles were attributed to gang behavior was more severe (mentally) than the actual use of the tool. I'm surprised they didn't outlaw tattoos and denim jackets as well.

You mean a tattoo won't make me a better fighter? :confused:

[SolidState]

You mean a tattoo won't make me a better fighter? :confused:

Unless Tattoo is the name of your vertically-impaired manservant / tag-team partner.

[Blerv]

You mean a tattoo won't make me a better fighter? :confused:

Only if it involves snakes, daggers, and wrestling partners (Thx Solid!). Haha.

[Dr. Snubnose]

To get back on topic I'll say this, deploying a bali from pocket clip or pouch is a slow process...once in hand the bali can be a superb SD knife with many techniques both-lethal and not. Mostly people don't understand how to use a balisong for SD. The U tube crowd has every trick and spin and twirl imaginable, fancy yes...SD practical...No....The balisong is use in many tactical ways...I'll tell you about one for example....In this case it's not about the flashy openings. There are angles which exist in FMA Stickfighting that incorporate short and long distance slashes and thrusts. The balisong uses the same stick angles applied to the knife, sword, etc. of that particular system. (in most styles the angles are basically the same) . Now lets say I'm doing a thrust to the belly with the knife (known as Sak Sak) If my balisong was open you would see the blade heading right for you. But if you knew how to use the balisong correctly is would open in the movement of thrust itself, opening fully 1/4" before target. Making it almost impossible to block and to late to recover from. In reality an angle one slash could be opened while the motion of the slash was in progress and by the time it's reached target make it's cut and then reach the next chambered position it would already be closed....opponent cut...he never saw a knife.....was taken by surprise, can't mount an effective counter defense....If you know how to use one...then the bali can really shine as a defense knife where legal to carry....Would I choose one as a primary if it was available to me when SHTF, Yah....after dancing, playing, trainng, fighting and teaching the Balisong for close to 40 years now...I'd have to say Yah.......
Last thought, don't use a specialty knife for SD ie Karambit, Civilian, Balisong, etc. even though it's major designs features it as a defensive tool. These type knives require instruction from qualified individuals who knows and can teach the proper techniques to those specific weapons. To get one and not really understanding how to use it will give you a false sense of security as you will not be able to take advance of the unique potentials of that specific weapon and with your limited skills feel restricted in it's uses and effectiveness...Doc :)

[DeathBySnooSnoo]

Not that I have any experience or real idea about using a knife in an SD situation, but couldn't it be used as an impact weapon first while closed, then opened to be used as an edged weapon? Not fast but maybe serving as a non lethal weapon first, then converted to something more lethal if the initial strike(s) weren't enough.

[chuck_roxas45]

Not that I have any experience or real idea about using a knife in an SD situation, but couldn't it be used as an impact weapon first while closed, then opened to be used as an edged weapon? Not fast but maybe serving as a non lethal weapon first, then converted to something more lethal if the initial strike(s) weren't enough.

Sure, the guy who used to teach use kali(arnis) when I was in college was really good with the bali. He used to drill with us with a closed bali using it as an impact weapon against our sticks.

[Blerv]

I guess you could use a pistol as a club too. Problem is if you strike someone with a gun or shoot at them it looks bad regardless.

I don't know. Grip transitions and advanced techniques often require a godly amoun of skill, luck, or a vast difference between the two people. It's a reason why joint locks are best demoed by a 220 pound black belt on a 18 year old in an environment with no adrenalin.

If Doc has used a Bali for 40 years that's different for sure. The average person should assume deploying a folder is tough enough. Especially once they have been struck in the head. One of the few things I'll give Marc Macyoung is his belief there are no "duels"

[chuck_roxas45]

I guess you could use a pistol as a club too. Problem is if you strike someone with a gun or shoot at them it looks bad regardless.

I don't know. Grip transitions and advanced techniques often require a godly amoun of skill, luck, or a vast difference between the two people. It's a reason why joint locks are best demoed by a 220 pound black belt on a 18 year old in an environment with no adrenalin.

If Doc has used a Bali for 40 years that's different for sure. The average person should assume deploying a folder is tough enough. Especially once they have been struck in the head. One of the few things I'll give Marc Macyoung is his belief there are no "duels"

Hah! Yep, I agree.

[DeathBySnooSnoo]

I was just thinking that a lot of people say that it is slower to get out and open than a folder, so using it as an impact weapon to gain you some space or time to open...like I said, I have no experience or training, but it seemed a possibility at least.