Such a thing as to sharp?

[badjujuboy]

I got myself a Delica Wave as my new edc. It's very sharp :D but I have already chipped the sh_t out of the blade. Nothing like my old Caly f/s.

Just sharing my thoughts :)

[akaAK]

Short answer...yes.

Long answer, depends on what you are cutting. When did you notice the the chipping. What angles are you at (factory or did you do some work on the blade?). You can chip any blade.

[razorsharp]

if you have a sharpener, pt a 20 per side micro bevel to strengthen the edge, factory 15 is a bit steep

[Blerv]

No such thing as "too sharp" but certainly "too thin" which I guess is the same thing in a way.

VG10 should hold some thin angles. It's certainly not a wood chisel at that point. What are you cutting if you don't mind me asking? Not trying to accuse just see if another blade would suit you better.

I don't chip blades usually but tend to be a sissy with my tasks. :)

[badjujuboy]

Thanks guys :) I don't know exactly what chipped it but I cut everything from card board, cork or anything else I need to cut. I guess it's just a little to thin for everything I use it for (no chisel though). I guess I'm used to thicker edge. Razorsharp - I'll try that. Thanks

[dbcad]

if you have a sharpener, pt a 20 per side micro bevel to strengthen the edge, factory 15 is a bit steep

That would be a good place to start :) Part of the fun for a lot of us is being able to take out the imperfections that are put into the edge with use. A nice 40 deg inclusive microbevel can be made very very sharp :D

Before going back to the stones you might to want try steeling the edge to realign it before resharpening. With VG-10 a rolling of the edge is more likely than a chip :) If an edge is used it will deteriorate. No matter what the material.

Now I should reserve the time to take out the imperfections I've put into the edges of my Urban, Temp2, SuperBlue Mule, and SG Delica.

I won't say anything about a loupe, I promise :o :D :)

[Cliff Stamp]

... I have already chipped the sh_t out of the blade.

Before you rush to increase the edge angle, simply sharpen the existing damage out and see if it happens again. Most factory knives, due to power sharpening, have weakened metal along the very edge, some can even come with a burr which can micro-fracture immediately, the very edge could also have a hollow as well. Normally just a few sharpening sessions is enough to see a significant difference by itself. I would be very surprised if you are chipping a 15 degree bevel on cardboard, wood or cork because that is the edge angle I use on an Iltis felling axe.

[dbcad]

Before you rush to increase the edge angle, simply sharpen the existing damage out and see if it happens again. Most factory knives, due to power sharpening, have weakened metal along the very edge, some can even come with a burr which can micro-fracture immediately, the very edge could also have a hollow as well. Normally just a few sharpening sessions is enough to see a significant difference by itself. I would be very surprised if you are chipping a 15 degree bevel on cardboard, wood or cork because that is the edge angle I use on an Iltis felling axe.

Thanks Cliff, good point :)

[jackknifeh]

Before you rush to increase the edge angle, simply sharpen the existing damage out and see if it happens again. Most factory knives, due to power sharpening, have weakened metal along the very edge, some can even come with a burr which can micro-fracture immediately, the very edge could also have a hollow as well. Normally just a few sharpening sessions is enough to see a significant difference by itself. I would be very surprised if you are chipping a 15 degree bevel on cardboard, wood or cork because that is the edge angle I use on an Iltis felling axe.

I've only been buying "better" quality knives for about 6 years. My goal was to get a knife that I liked that would stay sharp longer than anything I'd used all my life. $20 was the most expensive knife up to then. Every time I got a knife with a steel I hadn't used before I'd do some kind of edge retention test. Usually cardboard or whittling wood branches. I was very often surprised at how poorly the retention was compared to what others were saying on this forum and BF also. Then a couple months or so later I noticed the same knife seemed to be holding the edge longer. I noticed this several times, was very happy, but still wondered why. Your thoughts sound as credible as anything I've heard and makes sense.

At to the title of this thread, no, a knife can't be too sharp IMO. I believe the edge angle can be too low for the tasks a knife may be required to cut. That would make it fragile. Even an edge of 50 degrees inclusive can shave hair if it is sharp enough but cutting performance will be terrible unless the blade is very thin (fillet knife thin). It is still sharp, just won't cut effectively. That's my understanding.

Jack

[sixmoon]

Before you rush to increase the edge angle, simply sharpen the existing damage out and see if it happens again. Most factory knives, due to power sharpening, have weakened metal along the very edge, some can even come with a burr which can micro-fracture immediately, the very edge could also have a hollow as well. Normally just a few sharpening sessions is enough to see a significant difference by itself. I would be very surprised if you are chipping a 15 degree bevel on cardboard, wood or cork because that is the edge angle I use on an Iltis felling axe.

That's exactly what i was wondering too, if the blades where a bit too burnt at sharpening... i have 1 delica ffg and endura ffg and they both lost their edge instantly with a very light use.... i couldnt even figure out what happened to the endura because i used it so little before it got a rolling edge and chips O_o

my sage 3 in s30v worked better than the vg10 for that matter, but **** the delica and endura chipped or rolled with the lightest use... so i really hope it's an overheated sharpening that did that and its gonna get better... or else i will stay out of the light vg10 blades from spyderco (wich i dont wanna do )

[razorsharp]

oh also reminds me with something to add, a knife cant be too sharp... its all about the edge angle

[Bill1170]

I've had the same issue with edge holding on a new knife getting a lot better once I'd sharpened the edge a few times. Cliff's explanation makes sense. I keep all my folders at 30 degrees inclusive and they hold up well in vigorous use.

[jackknifeh]

That's exactly what i was wondering too, if the blades where a bit too burnt at sharpening... i have 1 delica ffg and endura ffg and they both lost their edge instantly with a very light use.... i couldnt even figure out what happened to the endura because i used it so little before it got a rolling edge and chips O_o

my sage 3 in s30v worked better than the vg10 for that matter, but **** the delica and endura chipped or rolled with the lightest use... so i really hope it's an overheated sharpening that did that and its gonna get better... or else i will stay out of the light vg10 blades from spyderco (wich i dont wanna do )

I like VG-10. I would buy any knife I wanted if it had VG-10. But, I have had at least the same or better performance from S30V at this point. I also have had better performance out of my Spyderco knives with VG-10 than another company's knives with VG-10. Heat treat I assume. I think Cliff is right about the factory edge performing better after a few sharpenings. I've seen that happen several times just never knew why and Cliff's explanation seems to make sense. From what I've read that he has said I believe he knows 100 times more than I do about steels and their performance. Then again, knowing more than me is no big accomplishment. :D Nothing personal Cliff. :D If the steel will perform better after a few sharpenings maybe just sharpening the blade A LOT in one sitting (or two) would get rid of steel that is inferior because of the factory process. By doing that, if the theory is correct, there should be a 100% improvement right away. If we just sharpen the edge when it needs it it will take quite a while to get to the "good" steel. Also, the better performance would be gradual and harder to see. I don't mean sharpen the knife until it is 1/4" shorter, :) but remove at least the steel at the same angle the knife came with. But, I hate to sharpen steel away unnesesarilly. Cliff, do you have an opinion on this?

Jack

[Cliff Stamp]

By doing that, if the theory is correct, there should be a 100% improvement right away.

Yes, the only concerns I would have are :

1) How do you know when you have good steel if you don't use it and check?

2) Each new steel, knife and grind has its own little quirks, I usually sharpen a knife a few times before I really make any judgments. If could be a perception about poor edge retention or ease of sharpening is just subtle issues with the handle ergonomics, weight of the blade, curvature, properties of the steel etc. .

Basically the act of sharpening, use and resharpening a few times will develop a feel for the edge, what stone it responds best to, what grit is best, is the angle too high, etc. . While you are figuring all of this out just keep a note of the properties of the steel and see are they changing, you will note you are moving past damaged steel if :

-burr formation starts to decrease

-the steel feels smoother on the stone, not gummy or brittle

-edge retention, especially crisp, will increase

-micro-chipping will decrease in frequency

Now yes if it is really severe grind away first. For example I recently attempted to work with a Cold Steel Magnum Kukri machete, after a few attempts to sharpen it and use it with no success (edge would collapse almost immediately). I just used a coarse stone to grind right into the edge before each sharpening and very quickly all the problems sorted out.

[badjujuboy]

Gentleman, you guys are a world of info and I thank you for that. I personally never thought a knife could be to sharp. Just to thin for some of my cutting chores. I think I know how I did it. Ever try cutting those ties that hold toys (grandson Christmas :) ), etc to the packaging?
Regards to all, jason

[Evil D]

There's no such thing as too sharp, but there is such a thing as too thin of an edge for a given steel or intended use. You might be able to sharpen VG10 down to 10 inclusive but the first cut you make it's going to roll down to nothing. For me it's about 50/50 depending on what steel i'm dealing with and how i intend to use the knife, which dictates how low i sharpen the knife.

That said, there's a whole other world to explore with super thin back bevels and reasonable micro bevels. I sharpen my ZDP Delica down to something like 20 inclusive but i usually put a 30 inclusive micro bevel on it to avoid chipping. I also avoid cutting things like zip ties unless i have no other choice.