Spyderco Forums

I was at the beach over the holidays visiting my family. Since I was on travel, I didn't pack a large contingent of knives - just my PE Salt1 and my H-1 Dragonfly.

As it turns out, the weather was nice enough for us to go down to the beach and build a nice bonfire one evening. When the family unloaded the wood for the fire, I noticed immediately that we didn't have adequate kindling and tinder to get the blaze started. So while the kids dug the fire pit, I sorted through the pile and picked out a bunch of old cedar siding shingles to make into firestarting material. (these are thicker than roofing shingles and don't taper as much)

I started by shaving off a big pile of tinder, which the PE Salt 1 chewed up easily. One of the older gentlemen with us noted that my "funny looking small knife" certainly made short work of the tinder. He asked me what it was, and we had a good time talking about the merits of H-1, the Spyderhole, etc.

Next, I had to create some kindling. My only option was to split the shingles lengthwise into 1/4" or 1/2" strips. I tried doing this job by hand, but I just couldn't get enough hand pressure to split the shingles effectively.

So, I decided to go against all my better judgement - and violate one of my primary beliefs (use the right tool for the job) - and baton the Salt1 through the shingles. I know...I know... I've ranted against mis-use of knives in previous threads... But I really didn't have any choice - aside from a shovel and a hot-dog fork, this was the only tool I had at my disposal.

To start off, I got a short piece of 1x3 to work as the baton and used a small log as the base. I started each of the kindling strips by hand, then used the baton to drive the Salt1 down the grain of the wood, splitting off the strips. I was careful to not torque the FRN scales - just using enough support with my fingers to keep the knife parallel to the ground. I worked this way for about 15 minutes, chewing up a dozen shingles and making an impressive pile of kindling.

My Scout son immediately got the "teepee" set up and used his firesteel to get the blaze going. In short order we had a roaring fire, hot dogs, s'mores, and a good time.

The Salt 1 came through like a champ. As you might guess, the soft H-1 got quite a bit of scratching on the blade's surface. But the edge (which was polished out to a mirror finish at 30 degrees) came through with little wear, still able to push cut newsprint across almost the entire edge (except for a couple of small dings caused by knots). It exhibits NO blade play in any direction. But, I got sand in the pivot, of course. :) I'll post some pictures later this evening - I haven't cleaned it up yet.

Overall, I'm really glad I had the Salt1 with me. I regret having to "abuse" the knife - but it performed like a champ. Thanks, Spyderco!

TedP

Sounds like it was a great family day. I look forward to opportunities like this when my little one gets older. Glad to know your Spydie held up to the abuse. I always try to pack larger folders (or a fixed blade) in my BOB, but it's good to know I "could" baton my Delica or Native if need be.

Sounds like a nice little evening! Can I ask if you left the the blade unlocked when you batoned?

I think that in this case you would be forgiven. This was a time where you had no other tool, and so it is nice to know that when these events happen, a smaller and definitely not made for the job spydie, will handle it. I'm sure you won't do it again...and so it was a good test that in a pinch, it'll holdup.

Sounds like a great time. I think the shovel might have been a better choice, but you got the job done!

H1 to the rescue!

At some point we all probably do something that we have pontificated about being utterly stupid/senseless/careless/irresponsible/whatever.

Some of us are big enough to own up to these episodes of foolishness, and even fewer of us use them as learning experiences (what NOT to do).

Unfortunately, many people take the limited success they see with these episodes and "learn" that because nothing went wrong, that behavior is acceptable/safe/correct.

Thanks for sharing. My only comment is, when I choose to do something stupid, I make sure my kids don't see it...they are not developed enough to understand that their dad occasionally does dumb things and it is no reason/excuse/invitation for them to do the same

Hypocritical? Absolutely, but I am not going to lie about it!

Glad it made it through ok. Batoning with the lock bar disengaged is the safest for a folder.

araneae wrote:Glad it made it through ok. Batoning with the lock bar disengaged is the safest for a folder.

Good to know.

Safest for the lock itself? Or am I missing your meaning?

Rwb1500 wrote:Good to know.

Safest for the lock itself? Or am I missing your meaning?

Safest for the entire knife I suppose...While batoning is never a great idea with a folder, disengaging the lock removes it from the list of things you might break whilst pounding on your knife. Assuming you have good aim. :D

This thread is worthless without pictures! :)

TedP

Nice battle scars! I still can't wrap my mind around what's so horrible about batoning with a folder...what exactly is it that damages the pivot so bad? It seems to me that if you hit the spine of the blade in the right place, all the stress would be put on the blade and not the handle unless you have a crazy death grip on it and hit the spine by the pivot? It's something i've never even considered or even heard of before joining this forum.

H1 is some tough stuff. It gets a bad rap for not holding an edge (PE) like some others, but it sure puts up with abuse well.

Evil D, you would not think that is puts much stress on a pivot, and in theory if you direct the blows very carefully, it won't...but in reality, it is rare that a single blow does the intended job and during the repeated blows, you will almost always miss a lick and put in some torsion, or put the impact stress partially (or entirely) on the pivot.

It simply is not a good idea to beat on a folding knife if you can avoid it. (notice, I am not saying that it never happens...just that you should have a better reason to do it than, "I wanted to see if I could" or "it looks really cool on my YouTube channel"

I think you underestimate the shock force of batoning.

If you hit it near the pivot and manage not to hit the handle your putting hundreds of pounds of force on the pivot area, which for a Salt knife, is being suspended by FRN. Luckily, it's extremely elastic.

If you hit on the tip side the blade is being forced into the material drastically faster than the handle. I would think the force would have more of a "folding effect" than a downward planing one, hence the force should be traveling in the opposite way against the lock.

Frankly my experience in physics is juvenile at best so I could be WAY off. Something tells me it's just all sorts of bad, which isn't me scolding the OP (no offense Ted!) or saying it should never be done...it's just obvious abuse. You can use a Bic pen as an ice pick too but it's sure not the intention of the maker.

After the first couple of strikes, I found the approach that seemed to put the least stress on the lock. I struck the spine just ahead of the hole, and basically just counterbalanced the scales with two fingers. I never felt like this was putting any undue stress on the lock.

But keep in mind that I was forcing the blade down through relatively soft cedar, and I was going with the grain - basically splitting the wood, not chopping it. In other words, I didn't have to flail away with the baton.

You can't really see in these photos - but there are absolutely no marks on the spine from the baton itself.

TedP

Really "batoning" is easy enough to define but actual use is far different as you said Ted. Soft batoning in a controlled manner can probably be done to a ladybug with minimal damage to the knife.

It's kinda like when people say "I went drinking last weekend." This can be two beers over dinner or a weekend binge involving two C Class actors losing their car.

I split LOTS of cedar with knives. It is a finicky wood in that the outer portion is really soft (around here at least) but the core is a beautiful purple color and is quite a bit harder.

You never really know how big this core is. Some of the branches are 80% core and 20% soft white outer wood...some may be the other way around. Many of it is riddled with knots though...and these knots can twist/destroy a blade in short order.

The key is to understand what you are working with, and act carefully. Cedar probably varies considerably with locality.

Why am I posting this? I have no idea...I just love the wood, it is beautiful stuff. I made this last weekend (with cedar...and a knife)!

I heard that if you baton, and barely hold the knife, and let it slide around by itself, you run much less risk of breaking it. That said, I did the same with my Endura. Chewed up that wood.

Wow that's a beautiful spoon

Good for u. I baton a.lot with my knives. Embrace it. Some peoples abuse is other peoples use. To each his own.