Spyderco Forums

I don't mean to stir up trouble, but on the other hand, maybe that's exactly what I mean to do. :cool:
Once again, I'm sitting here perusing the interwebz,sipping a couple post-work beverages, in fact scrolling back through this forums archives, when I stumble onto a thread about the future of S30V. I then read several posts from our own Ankerson,the same forum guru who recently put to rest most of our qualms concerning S35VN,yet I'm having a difficult time reconcilling his recent test results with his earlier statements.
After the s***-storm that ensued after CrimsonTide's test videos of his Native 5 with S35VN steel, Jim conducted yet another exhaustive test, and in is conclusion,stated :

Ankerson wrote: The Native 5 performed extremely well and S35VN seems to be a very good steel based on my testing, Spyderco did an excellent job with it. With all the questions about S35VN lately all I can say is it performed well in my testing of the Native 5 and it and the NAtive 5 is highly recommended by me.

Now, I'd previously read a few of his negative comments concerning this steel, and thought this turn-about was curious, but I decided keep my N5 rather than return it, as I was considering,largely based on this report.
But then, I stumble onto the following statements,that simply have me scratching my head, as they can't seem to be reconciled with the above conclusion.
So, as Rod Serling used to say,"Submitted for your approval......"

Ankerson wrote: S35VN just ain't it IMO......

Ankerson wrote:For the end users, no benifets over S30V except easier to sharpen.
All I can say in the end is don't pass up a knife in S30V because S35VN is coming.

Ankerson wrote:Other than one manufacturer that was involved in the development of S35VN for ease of manufacturing over S30V......

IMO that will prove to have been a mistake in the end I believe.

Bookmark this thread for future reference.....

Ankerson wrote:Yeah I know.

S35VN rolls and flattens way to easy compared to S30V. (My main gripe)

I think Crucible went too far in the other direction.

I think S35VN needs to be a lot harder from what I have seen, like 2 points or so, but I don't know if it can be taken to that hardness production wise.

There needs to be a hardness increase to offset the rolling and flattening, I would say at the min 61 HRC, but I don't know for sure.

Ankerson wrote:The Mule and one model so far.

I would love to hear that too, that would be fly on the wall stuff there.

I won't be getting anymore knives in S35VN until the rolling issues are resolved.

And finally, and a bit paradoxically :

Ankerson wrote:
If the results don't make since in the end then there is a problem with the test, the method and or the variables.

When I do my testing I try and be as accurate as I can be and I have no agenda other than the accuracy of my testing and I want my data to be accurate. In the end I don't care what the results are, they are what they are and I just write down the data. I have much more integrity than some do and I really want good data to be out there. While i am not perfect it is as good as I can make it and I stand by my results.......

I don't recall hearing mentioned where the Native 5 being tested actually came from. Of course, I don't know diddly, but I suspected it may have been sent by Spyderco, along with a request for this test, in order to quench the flames created by Crimson's tests.
At the very least, one must admit, this drastic 180-degree turn-around is curious,especially after a single series of tests.
And for the record, I'm NOT intending to bash Spyderco or Ankerson, but this is clearly a legitimate question that deserves further scrutiny. I'd like to hear some specifics from Ankerson on this turn-about.
( Rant over.......flame away :D )

Dude, you seriously need to stop letting others make decisions for what you want. If you like the knife/car/jacket/watch/tablesaw/tent/kayak/hamburger, why not just enjoy it?

flipe8 wrote:Dude, you seriously need to stop letting others make decisions for what you want. If you like the knife/car/jacket/watch/tablesaw/tent/kayak/hamburger, why not just enjoy it?

You've entirely missed the point. I love the knife ( have said so repeatedly). I'm keeping the knife ( made that clear,too.) I love Spydies ( bought several in just the last few weeks).
That being said, any chance you have anything pertinent to add concerning the perfectly valid points I made above ?

I'm guessing your divorced and it was all her fault... am I right?

People change opinions depending on the tests and dates. Just because info is all over the internet doesn't mean it's still relevant or valid for that particular person.

You can find people hating on ZDP-189, H1, 154cm, and even M4. I hear more about 8Cr13Mov being "semi stainless" than anything else. S30v is literally a civil war onto itself. Mostly by people who do more testing from their lay-z-boy chair surfing the net than with a real knife.

It's all subjective anyways. People have loved and used Swiss Army Knives for how many years? This isn't World of Warcraft...nobody will laugh at you for rolling a Paladin, I mean, using CPM-S35vn. :p

Spyderco needs to start using a steel that nobody has heard of. Maybe just make up a name and laser etch it in S35vn. Instead of focusing on things like edge wear and toughness they should create an esoteric chart of symbols and colors explaining that using this steel makes the user more sexy. Soon people will realize this animal magnetism that is being generated and praise it's merits. Some will lock it away in a safe and blame it for almost ruining their marriage.

Another idea would be a steel that repels angry spirits or is known to be able to slay dragons. I have all kinds of marketing ideas. Sal, we need to talk.

I haven't followed this S35VN thing very closely because honestly i don't think the steel would have come out if it were garbage. I don't see in writing where anyone said this steel was going to blow away S30V, only that it would likely replace it. Replace does not mean it's going to be better in every category. There are plenty of people who would find easier to sharpen just as important as edge retention, so the fact that the edge might roll before S30V does is, to me, a moot point because so does VG10, 154CM, and a slew of other extremely popular steels, but you don't see that issue holding back the sales or love for those steels do you?

It is what it is. Comparing it to another steel, while fun, is meaningless in the end because it doesn't change a thing. The only way to know is to buy it, try it, and decide for yourself.

I agree that Jim did do a 180. But, the great thing about our minds is that it's like a sponge that soaks up information, not a stone that everything just rolls off.

When in doubt, do your own tests and make up your own mind. Never let another persons statements influence you so easily.

DRKBC wrote:I'm guessing your divorced and it was all her fault... am I right?

LOL !!! :D Nope, never married,never divorced, but broke up with lot's of girfreinds, and honestly, they were nearly ALL my fault !! :)

Further more I'm going with the assessment of it being a nice overall steel. Such I got coming from Sal, Jim, Joe, Cliff and the letter "C". (for CATRA).

Blerv,
You are a genius... love it, please sign me up :eek:
Have a great day everyone :spyder:

MIL-DOT wrote:LOL !!! :D Nope, never married,never divorced, but broke up with lot's of girfreinds, and honestly, they were nearly ALL my fault !! :)

See that's my problem, I've been married for more years than I can remember (and I am being honest cause I try to block it out) but its because ... I keep all my thoughts bottled up instead of just blurting them out.

Had I just opened up my big mouth once in while it could have all been different ... I'd probably be doing real estate commercials on a cigarette boat with a couple of busty blonde's in Laguna Beach! We'll .. maybe not but still, I'm just saying.

Slash wrote:I agree that Jim did do a 180.

My impression was that he didn't like S30V much, so a semi-clone had little appeal. But I really don't care enough to reread the thread. My S35VN Mule is working just fine, so it's a shitstorm in a teakettle for all I can see. I'd buy another S35VN knife in a minute if it spoke to me.

Gordon

I think you need to put his comments in context. I never took it as he was saying s35v wasn't good. he was saying it wasn't a significant step up if at all. he also said he he liked s30v in the military he tested. So if s35v in his opinion wasn't a step up and worth the hype . It would still stand to reason he likes it if he likes s35v. At least that was my take on it.

It's all in flux, early days still with S35VN...everyone (foundry, manufacturers, users) is learning, things are developing...no two batches of steel are the same...no two HT batches are the same...it may not be apples and oranges but it might be red Delicious and Granny Smith...

Jim's a good guy, but lets face it, the guy plays with some badass high end steels, it doesn't surprise me if S35VN doesn't blow him away. I think quoting some of his posts are taking things a little out of context. He does say he feels S35VN isn't better than S30V, but then in the test he did he simply said S35VN was a good steel...not better, not worse, but a good steel. I don't see where he contradicted himself at all. VG10 may not hold a candle to S90V but it's still an excellent steel, is it not?

Blerv wrote:People change opinions depending on the tests and dates. Just because info is all over the internet doesn't mean it's still relevant or valid for that particular person.

You can find people hating on ZDP-189, H1, 154cm, and even M4. I hear more about 8Cr13Mov being "semi stainless" than anything else. S30v is literally a civil war onto itself. Mostly by people who do more testing from their lay-z-boy chair surfing the net than with a real knife.

It's all subjective anyways. People have loved and used Swiss Army Knives for how many years? This isn't World of Warcraft...nobody will laugh at you for rolling a Paladin, I mean, using CPM-S35vn. :p

Spyderco needs to start using a steel that nobody has heard of. Maybe just make up a name and laser etch it in S35vn. Instead of focusing on things like edge wear and toughness they should create an esoteric chart of symbols and colors explaining that using this steel makes the user more sexy. Soon people will realize this animal magnetism that is being generated and praise it's merits. Some will lock it away in a safe and blame it for almost ruining their marriage.

Another idea would be a steel that repels angry spirits or is known to be able to slay dragons. I have all kinds of marketing ideas. Sal, we need to talk.

Where to get the dragon slaying steel?

Maybe I missed it but when S35VN came out wasn't the whole idea to have something similar to S30V but easier to polish out?

I think you guys talking about "out of context" need to go re-read his statements.
"S35VN just ain't it IMO...... "
"I won't be getting anymore knives in S35VN until the rolling issues are resolved."
"IMO that will prove to have been a mistake in the end I believe......Bookmark this thread for future reference..... "
"I think S35VN needs to be a lot harder from what I have seen, like 2 points or so, but I don't know if it can be taken to that hardness production wise."

No,he's gone well beyond, "not quite as good as such-and-such....". I've read other statements from him,where he stated clearly that he thought this steel was a bad idea that would be proven out over time ( probably from BladeForums, I forget).

MIL-DOT wrote:I think you guys talking about "out of context" need to go re-read his statements.
"S35VN just ain't it IMO...... "
"I won't be getting anymore knives in S35VN until the rolling issues are resolved."
"IMO that will prove to have been a mistake in the end I believe......Bookmark this thread for future reference..... "
"I think S35VN needs to be a lot harder from what I have seen, like 2 points or so, but I don't know if it can be taken to that hardness production wise."

No,he's gone well beyond, "not quite as good as such-and-such....". I've read other statements from him,where he stated clearly that he thought this steel was a bad idea that would be proven out over time ( probably from BladeForums, I forget).

Maybe he made a mistake, maybe Crimson Tide made a mistake. If you use the knife yourself for a while maybe you can make up your mind about it and post the results. Maybe you should do "The Mildot test".

Mil Dot. said . I don't mean to stir up trouble, but on the other hand, maybe that's exactly what I mean to do.
then Mil Dot said . I'm NOT intending to bash Spyderco or Ankerson

whats with the 180?