Spyderco Forums

As said in a few other posts im interested in the gayle bradley. Having read up on the knife and the steel i still want one, but only if i can find somewhere to put some sort of coating on the blade. I know its gonna take away from the beauty of the knife but im looking for a hard use folder not a safe queen. That being said anybody know where or who does aftermarket blade coatings?

Not sure on a place to coat it. I would personally force a patina, it's a far more natural way to go and prob the best way to truly protect it.

If you are contemplating this to prevent corrosion, skip the DLC.Corrosion can form underneath the coating like it's not even there.

Allen R. wrote:As said in a few other posts im interested in the gayle bradley. Having read up on the knife and the steel i still want one, but only if i can find somewhere to put some sort of coating on the blade. I know its gonna take away from the beauty of the knife but im looking for a hard use folder not a safe queen. That being said anybody know where or who does aftermarket blade coatings?

My suggestion would be NIC's Cerakote. It is a firearm coating and the bake temp will be well below the tempering range.

"Surface Treatments
Because of its high tempering temperatures (>1000°F)
CPM M4 HC(HS) is suitable for nitriding, PVD coating or
similar surface treatments. CVD coating processes generally
exceed the hardening temperature and may result
in non-predictable dimensional changes."

You will have to find an applicator in your area.
http://www.nicindustries.com/applicator_search.php

I have been contemplating doing the same thing, but I have been a little woried about the 300F curing temperatures possibly affecting the temper of the steel. I just emailed John Norrell (from Moly Resin, which is what I have been using on my flashlight/machining business), and he just replied this morning that the 300F curing temp for one hour is still below the tempering level, so Moly Resin is an option:
http://www.molyresin.com/


Both Cerakote and Moly Resin also come in an air harderning option, which although not quite as durable/strong as the heat-cured version, this would be another option to try.

Surface treatment is "key" for any of these coatings to work well - read the instructions carefully

Will

rycen wrote:If you are contemplating this to prevent corrosion, skip the DLC.Corrosion can form underneath the coating like it's not even there.

This is an interesting comment about DLC coating. I would asume you experinced corrosion formed after the knife ( or tool ) is DLC coated.

Do you mind sharing your experience of corrosion formed DLC coating?

rycen wrote:If you are contemplating this to prevent corrosion, skip the DLC.Corrosion can form underneath the coating like it's not even there.

datoudaw wrote:This is an interesting comment about DLC coating. I would asume you experinced corrosion formed after the knife ( or tool ) is DLC coated.

Do you mind sharing your experience of corrosion formed DLC coating?

While not an actual experience, here's further corroboration that DLC can contribute to corrosion:

TazKristi wrote:It might be worth noting, a coating can (and often does) actually make rust/corrosion worse. Water Bug, you are correct, the intended purpose is light discipline. :cool:

Kristi

DLC is used to make the surface of the knife non-reflective, not to protect it from the elements.

Main purpose of DLC coating ( diamond like coating, CVD or PVD ) is not for non-reflective of knife surface, I would assume. After DLC coating at 3000+ HV, it is very hard, and I believe Spyderco applied DLC on the knives and clips for superior scratch prevention

Before coating of any kind, the surface should be cleaned. Inside the vacumm chamber, there is no water at all. If there is no rust to begin with, I wonder how and why a coating can make a rust/corrsion even worse.

I wonder if TazKristi was referencing any particular instance or speaking in general. Rust/corrosion formed after DLC coating, in my opinion, is a defect in the process.

Jeff Forbush cerakoted my Manix 2 and I highly recommend him. I'm not sure if the Frame/Liner lock on the GB will cause problems, but he's done a Military and several other liner locks. He's very good at answering questions.

Here is his website: http://www.4bushweaponsrefinishingsystems.com/

wquiles wrote:I have been contemplating doing the same thing, but I have been a little woried about the 300F curing temperatures possibly affecting the temper of the steel.

Per Crucible "Because of its high tempering temperatures (>1000°F) CPM M4 HC(HS) is suitable for nitriding, PVD coating or
similar surface treatments.

Will is right 300 °F is well below 1000°F. :)

wquiles wrote:Surface treatment is "key" for any of these coatings to work well - read the instructions carefully

Absolutely! Can't stress key enough. A good applicator will degrease, bake, sandblast/beadblasts, befo re application.

Anyone ever consider a commercial nitride coating? I had a friend who did it for a living...i would have had access to coating pretty much anything i wanted, but he doesn't work there anymore. Still, i'm sure someone out there would coat a blade for you for a price. The only thing i'd be concerned with is damaging the heat treat.

jabba359 wrote:While not an actual experience, here's further corroboration that DLC can contribute to corrosion:



DLC is used to make the surface of the knife non-reflective, not to protect it from the elements.

*sigh* The last time people here were insisting that DLC contributed to corrosion I lost my temper and dug up a journal article which clearly indicated that it HELPS prevent corrosion. Its not the magic bullet like some other coatings, but TECHNICALLY helps. That said if spyderco improperly surface treated the knives prior to DLC I can certainly see why you'd not expect it to help resist corrosion.


All of this is a bit grandiose though. There are lots of MUCH easier ways to treat your knives to resist corrosion. There is a product called Corrosion X (google it) which claims to do exactly that in an invisible and easy to apply way. That said I'll do you one better. Tuff Glide is basically a molybdenum salt suspended in a mineral spirit. The liquid is just a delivery system and evaporates with time, its the molybdenum which acts as a dry film lubricant and also happens to provide a protective coating for the knife. Heating the part prior to application can enhances this effect and improve penetrance into the pores. If you're really worried about rust on M4 take it apart, clean it thoroughly, heat it with a hairdryer, and apply tuff glide. Evaporate the Tuff glide with the hair dryer and repeat the process. When you're done the thing will be surprisingly corrosion resistant. (also for everyone with a sticky para2 lock this fixes that as well with ease)

hunterseeker5 wrote:*sigh* The last time people here were insisting that DLC contributed to corrosion I lost my temper and dug up a journal article which clearly indicated that it HELPS prevent corrosion. Its not the magic bullet like some other coatings, but TECHNICALLY helps. That said if spyderco improperly surface treated the knives prior to DLC I can certainly see why you'd not expect it to help resist corrosion.


All of this is a bit grandiose though. There are lots of MUCH easier ways to treat your knives to resist corrosion. There is a product called Corrosion X (google it) which claims to do exactly that in an invisible and easy to apply way. That said I'll do you one better. Tuff Glide is basically a molybdenum salt suspended in a mineral spirit. The liquid is just a delivery system and evaporates with time, its the molybdenum which acts as a dry film lubricant and also happens to provide a protective coating for the knife. Heating the part prior to application can enhances this effect and improve penetrance into the pores. If you're really worried about rust on M4 take it apart, clean it thoroughly, heat it with a hairdryer, and apply tuff glide. Evaporate the Tuff glide with the hair dryer and repeat the process. When you're done the thing will be surprisingly corrosion resistant. (also for everyone with a sticky para2 lock this fixes that as well with ease)

I merely meant to say that DLC-like coatings can contribute to corrosion and should not be used specifically to prevent it. Results obviously vary by what kind of prep-work is done to the surface before coating, so choose your aftermarket coater wisely. I'm sure Spyderco's factory coatings are satisfactory, but DLC should be primarily used for light discipline. As you noted, there are far better ways to prevent corrosion that don't involve the potential to trap contaminates permanently underneath the coating, such as: tuf-glide, Militec, etc.

I sure some people coat knives similar to how others paint cars, various products and skill.

Keeping a knife clean and dry is very important, oiled a luxury for most. I figured my M4 would melt before my very eyes once touched by the air. /chagrin