S35VN on the Native 5 has been a pleasant surprise for me. From what I had read, I wasn't necessarily expecting much difference from S30V. I found that it does seem to hold a fine edge longer than S30V, though. S35VN is said to take a better polish, and I think that is one reason for the improvement (I like to polish my edges with the Xtra Fine Sharpmaker rods and a strop).
Anyone else notice differences S35VN vs S30V?
S35VN vs. S30V
S35VN vs. S30V
Tom
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Junior avatar courtesy of dialexSequimite wrote:I use knives. I collect experiences.
I'm an admirer of Spyderco's designs. Using them is like immersing yourself in music or studying a painting in a museum. I buy some "fine" art but my preference is for usable art.
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The Mastiff
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What in particular are you wanting to compare? Toughness, Edge stability, wear resistance, corrosion resistance? How familiar are you with S30V and what do you want compared between the two? Here's the manufacturers page with S35VN's performance compared to a few steels as well as some other info. http://www.crucible.com/PDFs%5CDataShee ... v12010.pdfAccording to some reviews I've been reading S35VN isn't upto the same par as S30V. Since it has been out a while now does anyone one have input on this?
Joe
"A Mastiff is to a dog what a Lion is to a housecat. He stands alone and all others sink before him. His courage does not exceed temper and generosity, and in attachment he equals the kindest of his race" Cynographia Britannic 1800
"Unless you're the lead dog the view is pretty much gonna stay the same!"
"Unless you're the lead dog the view is pretty much gonna stay the same!"
That's actually a very fair question. I have been going back and forth on my next knife with the Native 5 being the top pick so far. I was looking around last night and saw the review that JDavis (I think that's correct, he had a good demo on the Sharpmaker) did on YouTube. So I'm not really that educated on it, yet. To answer your question, edge stability. I don't have a knife with either steel yet. i know that Spyderco used S30V alot so I was just looking for some input as I started to educate myself on the two steels.What in particular are you wanting to compare?
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The Mastiff
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To be really honest the S35VN should have more edge stability ( don't confuse with wear resistance). It should, heat treats being done to enhance that type grain and performance in both. My opinion is , like wear resistance, the reality of it is in the field outside the lab they would probably be indistinguishable. It would take a bit of doing to get actual, repeatable results showing a difference so minor it would be within the error limits of the study. These steels are very high performing, premium cutlery steels that has a very slight wear resistance gain going to S30V, and a slight toughness ( resistance to chipping, will roll instead) advantage to S35VN. This is the design goal of S35VN and it seems they hit the nail on the head. The decrease in wear from the 1% lower Vanadium carbides in actual field use seems to be pretty insubstantial to most users not doing some pretty sophisticated studies.
I like both steels and find them indistinguishable so far performance wise but that's under pretty moderate, not heavy use. About the only way I've tested S35VN is by thinning it out but even that wasn't much.
Get what knife you like. The steels will both do what they are supposed to.
Joe
I like both steels and find them indistinguishable so far performance wise but that's under pretty moderate, not heavy use. About the only way I've tested S35VN is by thinning it out but even that wasn't much.
Get what knife you like. The steels will both do what they are supposed to.
Joe
"A Mastiff is to a dog what a Lion is to a housecat. He stands alone and all others sink before him. His courage does not exceed temper and generosity, and in attachment he equals the kindest of his race" Cynographia Britannic 1800
"Unless you're the lead dog the view is pretty much gonna stay the same!"
"Unless you're the lead dog the view is pretty much gonna stay the same!"
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The Mastiff
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Glad to share. That's what we do here. Share what we've learned, ask what we haven't. :)
Joe
Joe
"A Mastiff is to a dog what a Lion is to a housecat. He stands alone and all others sink before him. His courage does not exceed temper and generosity, and in attachment he equals the kindest of his race" Cynographia Britannic 1800
"Unless you're the lead dog the view is pretty much gonna stay the same!"
"Unless you're the lead dog the view is pretty much gonna stay the same!"
From the table on the PDF you linked it looks like the two are almost identical. Am I correct with this thought, "The less the wear resistance the easier it will be to sharpen?" Compare it to S90V that is 3X as wear resistant. My thought is that the S35VN would be easier for a novice to sharpen, also would need to be sharpened more often given the same use. Is that the right thought process?
Re: S35VN vs. S30V
I recently purchased a native 5 lightweight to try out both the native as well as the CPM S35VN, a steel which I had no previous experience with. I have always found it interesting that this steel is only available on one production Spyderco, while S30V is used on a wide variety of models.
Initially I was rather confused as the steel didn't seem to take a very keen edge with the normal sharpmaker process - out of box sharpness was pretty good but I decided to experiment straight away with the unfamiliar steel. Sharpening on the factory bevel at 20 degrees per side I found the best edge was to be had by using the flats of the medium stones. This was somewhat different to my S30V Sage 1, which took a very keen razor edge using the flats of the fine stones followed by stropping.
Tonight I busted out the diamond rods and went to work on the factory bevel, which I discovered was not quite symmetrical, especially at the point, which was clearly offset. Using the 30 degree setting on the sharpmaker I back bevelled the entire edge, going diamond, medium and then fine. After that I switched to the 40 degree normal setting and went medium, fine, followed by the strop. After this process, the steel is behaving much more like S30v, taking a very keen edge and polishing up nicely.
Just goes to show that you can't really assume anything...
Regards,
Bruno
Initially I was rather confused as the steel didn't seem to take a very keen edge with the normal sharpmaker process - out of box sharpness was pretty good but I decided to experiment straight away with the unfamiliar steel. Sharpening on the factory bevel at 20 degrees per side I found the best edge was to be had by using the flats of the medium stones. This was somewhat different to my S30V Sage 1, which took a very keen razor edge using the flats of the fine stones followed by stropping.
Tonight I busted out the diamond rods and went to work on the factory bevel, which I discovered was not quite symmetrical, especially at the point, which was clearly offset. Using the 30 degree setting on the sharpmaker I back bevelled the entire edge, going diamond, medium and then fine. After that I switched to the 40 degree normal setting and went medium, fine, followed by the strop. After this process, the steel is behaving much more like S30v, taking a very keen edge and polishing up nicely.
Just goes to show that you can't really assume anything...
Regards,
Bruno
Re: S35VN vs. S30V
They are almost interchangable. I've had less problems sharpening 35vn vs 30v but I have less time playing with it. Perhaps just a lucky streak or maybe it's grain refinement and lack of v carbides.
As I understand it was mainly created with the maker in mind. Of course with the intent not to impact the customer (much if at all).
As I understand it was mainly created with the maker in mind. Of course with the intent not to impact the customer (much if at all).
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twinboysdad
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Re: S35VN vs. S30V
I am most curious about SE s35v vs s30v. I am close to snagging a SE native 5 but want to know more
Re: S35VN vs. S30V
I would concur with this, now that I have corrected the edge geometry on my Native 5LW! This knife is definitely the worst-ground USA-made Spydie I've had to date: all of my others (Millie, PM2, Manix 2LW) have had very symmetrical grinds and nicely centred tips, this knife had neither. Must have been made on a Friday afternoon :rolleyes:Blerv wrote:They are almost interchangeable.
Bruno
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Cliff Stamp
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Re:
Just co clarify as this seems to be repeating now for some reason, while S30V has ~4% vanadium while S35VN has only ~3%, however and this is a big however, S35VN has 0.5% Niobium which S30V does not have.The Mastiff wrote: The decrease in wear from the 1% lower Vanadium carbides ...
Niobium is a carbide former just like Vanadium, MC type, very small, very hard carbides. However it has a few differences from Vanadium :
-it comes out of solution in the melt sooner, it resists dissolving in the austenite more
-it tends to form in different places in the steel than vanadium carbide
-it does not tend to solid solution strengthen other carbides, it tends to form direct niobium carbide
This means it is a stronger grain refiner than vanadium, it increases wear resistance more, and it increases the wear/toughness ratio more. Thus it isn't comparing 4 vs 3% vanadium, it is more similar to comparing 4 vs 3.5+% vanadium .
Now based on all of that you might ask why not make it all niobium vs vanadium? Well it is due to cost and production issues. Niobium comes out of the melt very early and it makes it ropy which is why it is usually limited to small amounts.
Re: S35VN vs. S30V
Cliff,
You mention the niobium solidifying early from the melt, making it ropy. I can picture this in an ingot steel. Is this ropiness also manifest in the tiny sprayed particles? I was under the impression that S35VN is a powder metallurgy steel. Isn't one of the reasons for PM steels to combat that segregation upon cooling?
You mention the niobium solidifying early from the melt, making it ropy. I can picture this in an ingot steel. Is this ropiness also manifest in the tiny sprayed particles? I was under the impression that S35VN is a powder metallurgy steel. Isn't one of the reasons for PM steels to combat that segregation upon cooling?