Sprint run minor changes?

[Donut]

If for some reason Spyderco wanted to make a second run of a Sprint run, would making one change to the Sprint make all of the complainers happy?

Say, if the Orange Millie's second run had S35VN and the third run had S30V and a different type of jimping on the thumb ramp?

I think this would make the collectors happy and it would make the people looking to make a buck happy because there would be a small amount of each one available and they can market it as a more limited run.

Now I guess the question is, how difficult would it be to make one small change to a sprint run?

One thing I had in mind was the Glow in the Dark Manix 2 exclusive, the prototype was in XHP, the run was S30V and they were thinking of a second run. Wouldn't it be good (for everyone) to do the second run with XHP if possible?

[jtoler_9]

I would love to see another Manix 2 in XHP. I missed the first and would love a shot at one. You can keep the glow in the dark stuff though. Dark handle please.

[jossta]

The XHP Manix can still be had on the secondary market for very close to what it retailed for. Also, for collectibility, Moonglow and XHP will probably increase in value more than XHP and a normal color, since the XHP Manix hasn't exactly skyrocketed like the Moonglow one did.

[Mako109]

Ever heard of the old axiom: "The key to failure is to try to please everyone."

[yablanowitz]

If for some reason Spyderco wanted to make a second run of a Sprint run, would making one change to the Sprint make all of the complainers happy?

In a word, no. Nothing will make them happy, that's what makes them complainers.

[The Deacon]

I'm pretty much in agreement with Mako and Yab that it's never going to be possible to make everyone happy and that Spyderco could go broke trying.

That said, I'm of the opinion that two Sprints of the same model, a year apart, with different steels and no other changes would raise few protests. That would be especially true if the second steel (or both steels) were desirable in their own right. Spyderco has already done that at least a few times. S30V and BG-42 versions of the CF Military being the first that comes to mind. Different handle colors would also draw little fire, as would different blade shapes.

On the other hand, two Sprints of the same model, a year apart, with only a change as subtle as jimping would have more people, mostly investors, up in arms. The flippers have already made their profit off the first one, so their only concern is whether or not to roll the dice on the new one. The users would either be happy for a second chance, or not care. The collectors would either be happy for an excuse to expand their collection one more time, or decide the new one was not really a variant since it did not need a unique SKU and pass on it.

[phaust]

It seems like most people who "complain" do so over the expectation that there will be a fixed number in that configuration and never any more than that. I'd say the simplest fix would be to make explicit, perhaps in each sprint's little description blurb, that one should not have that expectation. Something like "Future runs of this sprint model will depend on demand" would be sufficient. Make it clear that there could be future runs of the same sprint, and there would be no legitimate gripe if it happens.

[Donut]

All good points so far. I've seen many times (not by Spyderco) people complain and the answer to the complaint is that it was because the company was avoiding another(, usually worse,) complaint.

[Cheygriz]

I would like to see Spyderco stop pandering to "collector's only" and make new knives until everyone who wants one has the opportunity to buy one (or two or a dozen) without having to pre-order, or:
"git one of them thar limited editions while ya can."

I carry a S90V Military as my EDC. Everyone who sees it wants one, but I have to tell them they can't have one unless they're willing to pay some scalper a ridiculous price. :mad: :mad:

Why make a top quality product if only the select few can buy them.

I'd love to have the opportunity to buy several of these type knives for Christmas presents for relatives.

[jossta]

It's either a few or none at all. They do that b/c they're knife enthusiasts and they like to offer others who feel the same way a chance to own something unique or with high end/experimental materials. They also do it as a way of testing the waters.

The reason they don't just make the Military in S90v regular production is b/c 99.9999% of knife buyers don't care about the difference between S30v and S90v. Even if they did, they wouldn't be willing to pay the premium. Additionally, due to limited production capacity, they would then have to not produce something else. So either way there isn't going to be an unlimited supply of every knife that everyone wants.

It's all a balancing act.

[yablanowitz]

I would like to see Spyderco stop pandering to "collector's only" and make new knives until everyone who wants one has the opportunity to buy one (or two or a dozen) without having to pre-order, or:
"git one of them thar limited editions while ya can."

I carry a S90V Military as my EDC. Everyone who sees it wants one, but I have to tell them they can't have one unless they're willing to pay some scalper a ridiculous price. :mad: :mad:

Why make a top quality product if only the select few can buy them.

I'd love to have the opportunity to buy several of these type knives for Christmas presents for relatives.

How many pieces are there in "enough"? Or are you suggesting they not make anything unless it goes into at least limited production? How long does it take for everyone who wants one to have the opportunity to buy one? Does that point come before or after Spyderco has to liquidate inventory at a loss to make room for the next new model?

[Handwrecker]

In a word, no. Nothing will make them happy, that's what makes them complainers.

Well said.

[Donut]

The way I see it, the normal production versions are the ones that anyone can get and they keep making them until they stop selling. If someone wants a Military bad enough, they can get a S30V one.

[lamorak]

Two things:

1. Making more variations just means making more sprint runs. And I'm not sure there is either a market or capacity at Spyderco.
2. If a sprint run, Military with Carbon Fiber and S90V for example, is really successful, Spyderco will take it into account when deciding which will be the next production models.

As I understand them, sprint runs is not for collectors or investors, they are for Spyderco to try new things (the Caly 3.5 Super Blue is a perfect example), or to satisfy a demand where Spyderco does not see a market big enough for a full production (e.g. the recent Massad Ayoob sprint).

[Cheygriz]

I am aware of what Sprint runs are.

I am also aware that almost everyone I hunt and camp with would gladly pay the price for a production S90V (or CTS 20) Military.

How much is enough? well, when the orders stop coming in, and/or all of the regular dealers are no longer back ordered, then that's enough.

And to resond to handwrecker, when I am fortunate enough to own something really great, I like to show it to all of my friends.

And I'm not snobbish enough to gloat over the fact that they can't get one.

Quite the opposite, in fact. If possible, I will help them get the same thing.

When a knife is exclusive to one dealer, and sold out before even being manufactured, that's not market research, that's pandering to a select group.

Sorry for the rant, but I recently went through the same thing with my CPM M-4 Millie, and I'm awaiting an E-mail to pre-order the M390 Millie.

I don't expect every variation to last forever, but when a very good knife is offered, I'd like to see them make enough initially that there will be a few left on dealer's shelves 3-6 months after they ship, and no pre-order is necessary.

[jossta]

I'm sure they will gladly do that if you want to front the investment it would take. Sure, in an ideal world there would be enough to go around, but it's not realistic.

Inventory = Money. Spyderco or any other company would go out of business if they operated like that.

If your friends want what you have, tell them about the M390 Millie. Should be very comparable.

The thing about Spyderco is that you may not be able to get THIS one but there will always be a NEXT one.

I just don't understand how you could possibly be upset with Spyderco over a dealer exclusive. It is the dealers choice and money that goes into funding that and without them, we wouldn't get it at all. It's awesome of Spyderco and other companies to even consider things like that to bring some amazing combinations to the limited group that will appreciate it.

[The Deacon]

When a knife is exclusive to one dealer, and sold out before even being manufactured, that's not market research, that's pandering to a select group.

I agree with the much of what you said, but I have to take exception to that.

When someone sponsors a run, it's being done on their dime. I'm sure Spyderco sets the minimum quantity, and probably defines the increment sizes above that, but it's then up to the sponsor to decide how many they wish to order. In other words, there is no pre-defined max, except possibly one set by their credit rating. Not only that, it is also the sponsor's decision whether or not to post on their website that there will only be NNN made. Spyderco would be happy to make more for them. AG Russell has kept the SnapIt alive for years that way.

[Cheygriz]

I'm sure they will gladly do that if you want to front the investment it would take. Sure, in an ideal world there would be enough to go around, but it's not realistic.

Inventory = Money. Spyderco or any other company would go out of business if they operated like that.

If your friends want what you have, tell them about the M390 Millie. Should be very comparable.

The thing about Spyderco is that you may not be able to get THIS one but there will always be a NEXT one.

I just don't understand how you could possibly be upset with Spyderco over a dealer exclusive. It is the dealers choice and money that goes into funding that and without them, we wouldn't get it at all. It's awesome of Spyderco and other companies to even consider things like that to bring some amazing combinations to the limited group that will appreciate it.

Jossta, maybe you're right. But I just have a feeling that the "limited group" you referred to might not be anywhere even close to being as limited as lotsa folks think. A heckuva lot of Americans appreciate excellence, and they're willing to pay a premium price for it.

And BTW, in spite of my criticism, I really do appreciate the fact that Spyderco is making at least a tiny number of these blades available from time to time.

Anyway, I've expressed my point, and I'll leave it at that.

[jossta]

I would like it if that were the case. I honestly don't know, just going by the people I've come in contact with, and Spyderco's judgement. I trust them to offer us the best that they can. I don't think I could say that about many other companies, if any at all. I believe that if it were economically feasible for them to offer us an unlimited supply of CF/S90v Militaries or Ti/CF Elmax Millies or 3v C95s or S110v Paras, they would most certainly do it.

[Blerv]

Spyderco doesn't cater towards collectors. Collectors are attracted by Spyderco knives.

One can say any exclusive knife is "collectable" but with the exception of a few like the Damascus Delica or September 11th D'Allera Rescue they are made to be used as tools.

Limited runs are ways of testing the waters with exotic materials that may be a success or a failure. Knives like the Mule are indeed testing platforms while people treat them like DIY custom knives. Interpretation and intention are two different things.