overall F&F question

casey1 · #1

are the frn spydies in seki all less than best? i've read up on the stretch now and am kinda not wanting to get one with the uneven blade grinds and lockbars. are the G-10 ones any better? looking for an amazing slicer and like the sage 1 but the caly3, 3.5, and s2 all look amazing. would like a good f&f

Blerv · #2

casey1 wrote:are the frn spydies in seki all less than best? i've read up on the stretch now and am kinda not wanting to get one with the uneven blade grinds and lockbars. are the G-10 ones any better? looking for an amazing slicer and like the sage 1 but the caly3, 3.5, and s2 all look amazing. would like a good f&f

No knife is "perfect", not even customs.

The knives from Seki, Golden, and Italy are all very close these days. My Stretch came with perfect lines yet some find their particular grind uneven. You can find this with any knife though as QC has a small margin from "acceptable" to "unacceptable". A good way to defeat this is to either inspect them in person or buy in bulk and return/sell off the less perfect ones.

There was never a G10 one, just a ply-peel carbon fiber.

I wouldn't hesitate buying any Spyderco, even the ones from China. If you expect sub-par QC you will surely find something that will drive you insane. Call it a magnifying glass on a mission.

Note: The fact that knives like the Sage and Gayle Bradley can approach customs on a manufacturing level should be a testament to the small-volume workshop of artisans rather than the rest of world's sub-par QC expectations. Yes, that was a very long run-on sentence.

Ankerson · #3

The closest you will ever get to Perfect is Chris Reeve in production knives, but even then they aren't PERFECT.....

You can always find something if you look hard enough...

casey1 · #4

i know there was not a g10 stretch i was saying are the seki knives that come in g10 higher tolerances than frn ones?

phaust · #5

Not just FRN but every Seki-made Spyderco I've bought in the last two years (which, admittedly, is only a couple) has been noticeably worse in fit and finish when compared to Spydercos from the USA and Taiwan.

casey1 · #6

that's sad... maybe i'll just stick with golden and taiwan models then

Blerv · #7

Ankerson wrote:The closest you will ever get to Perfect is Chris Reeve in production knives, but even then they aren't PERFECT.....

You can always find something if you look hard enough...

^--- This is what I meant prior to slopping 500+ random words on a page. :o

casey1 wrote:i know there was not a g10 stretch i was saying are the seki knives that come in g10 higher tolerances than frn ones?

Not necessarily. A G10 knife generally has more places for gaps to form, like scales and liners meeting and machining scuffs. They are all assembled and then sharpened by hand on a belt.

I've heard people with Delica's that "lock up like a vault" and others with "unacceptable play", perfect grinds vs uneven and "sloppy" grinds. Since most of that is subjective and fixable it's a non-topic for me.

If you want a wicked slicing ergonomic knife for $60 +/- it's hard to beat any Spyderco.

scatteredsage · #8

IMO, any product with tight tolerances that is mass-produced will have inconsistencies. Spyderco is among the best I've seen among production knife manufacturers in terms of overall build quality, edge geometry (not just factory sharpness, but how well the edge wears and re-sharpens over time without needing to reprofile), and materials used. However, I have seen a few Seki City Spydercos with issues. I briefly had a new Sprint Run Dyad Jr. with vertical play in the lockup, and a new Stretch with a 1/4" section of the edge that was completely unsharpened on one side. I returned both, but I know that Spyderco would have rectified the issues if I had opted to send them in for warranty work.

With that said, I think these two cases were the exception, NOT the rule, and that Spyderco's build quality is outstanding overall. Every manufacturer's products will have inconsistencies and faults here and there, and Spyderco is extremely good about making things right.

All that to say: No, I do not think the Spydies from Seki City are less than stellar. There might be a few issues as mentioned in the forums, but by virtue of them being reported and sent to Spyderco's warranty/repair department, they will be (and are probably being) addressed. Nobody is perfect 100% of the time, and IMO it's worth it to give Spyderco a chance to make it right, as they are a company that listens to their customers.

As for good slicers, I currently own a Sage 1, previously owned a Delica4 FFG, and have handled a Centofante3, and they are all outstanding.

catamount · #9

The particular Japanese contractor (Moki) who makes the Calys & Persians is known for outstanding F&F. Their knives are marked simply "Japan", rather than "Seki City Japan".

wvguy8258 · #10

For the price point, the overall quality of materials and fit and finish of FRN spydercos cannot be beat. I have around 10 spyders and all have F and F of such quality that I could not ever reasonably complain. Maybe I've been lucky, but I tend to think I have "average" spyders. You may approach perfection as you increase price, but the law of diminishing returns starts kicking in. If you think you've found a perfect knife, it is only because your perception of quality is not perfect.

gbelleh · #11

All my Japanese Spydercos are completely within specs and do their job of cutting extremely well. Are they all perfect? Not quite. Some have slightly uneven grinds, or come out of the box gritty, etc. But nothing I would consider a defect, just very small imperfections that are to be expected for production knives at their price. None of these small inconsistencies have any effect on cutting performance. Both my Stretches are just fine in f&f, IMO.

If you have extremely high expectations, and little tolerance for the slightest imperfection, you should definitely inspect in person before buying.

Ankerson · #12

gbelleh wrote:All my Japanese Spydercos are completely within specs and do their job of cutting extremely well. Are they all perfect? Not quite. Some have slightly uneven grinds, or come out of the box gritty, etc. But nothing I would consider a defect, just very small imperfections that are to be expected for production knives at their price. None of these small inconsistencies have any effect on cutting performance. Both my Stretches are just fine in f&f, IMO.

If you have extremely high expectations, and little tolerance for the slightest imperfection, you should definitely inspect in person before buying.

That or go with Customs and be prepared to really open the wallet wide because the more picky you are the higher the price will be.

More man hours = Higher price.....

Ry-Gon · #13

I own 5 spydies,all from skeki city.Fit and finish on my examples is great. stretch 2 has quickly became a favorite. thats just my experience with spyderco so far.

gunnut35 · #14

I have bought at least 70 spydercos since Oct 2010. The only issues i have had, is some of the zdp Spydercos had some grit in the pivot area and needed cleaning.

Donut · #15

I'm very happy with the fit and finish of all of my Delicas, Enduras, Dragonfly's, Ladybugs, Stretches...

It isn't the best of the best, but it is very acceptable. I would say at least 95% and probably closer to 98% in my experience.

They are soooo much worth the price tag.

dbcad · #16

Out of the 40 or so Spydercos I've recieved only one came in with a bunged up edge. Solution was to expand my limited skills and it has worked. Off center with FRN knives doesn't bother me. They're less expensive and all are uery useful. It's a production knife.

Have to say I was very impressed with the F&F on my 2 ZDP Ladybugs :D

v8r · #17

I have found in the last several years that the Seki made knives are not finished as nicely as knives made in the other factories. They always function as designed , but the workmanship is below the others.

The Mentaculous · #18

I don't get why tiny little inconsistencies that may or may not occur, and most would not notice, are a big deal at all??

Every FRN Seki Japan knife I've gotten WORKS and LOOKS great. Everything else is just nitpicking over minutia (my main focus when buying a knife is not whether there might be one spot that isn't perfect under a magnifying glass).

And BTW--I've had knives from both Taiwan and Golden with noticeable inconsistencies, and Seki Japan knives with basically no noticeable flaws. So you can never expect perfection, regardless of where it's made.

If you want something with no noticeable flaws, be prepared to pay at least $300, and that's the very low end price-wise. And even that won't be "perfect".

I say, why let some neuroses get in the way of buying a knife that is loved by so many knowledgeable users!? The experienced guys can have some very discriminating tastes, yet they like the Stretch 2. I would just trust that, since they have been around a long time and know what a very high quality knife is, and this is one.

I used to be that way too, worrying about little flaws and things that don't "look right", and I've discovered that to me, it really doesn't make one bit of difference in how much I like, use, and appreciate the knife. After a week of owning it, I really think you're not going to care about a tiny flaw that you need to look with a magnifier to see.

I've been very satisfied with all the Seki Japan FRN knives I've gotten...I have at least 5, all made in that last year or 2. The only thing I've noticed is that the bevels are sometimes thinner/inconsistent near the tang. But knives are made to be sharpened, and it never caused a problem for me. Other than that I haven't noticed any real "flaws" in mine and the several I've handled.

PPS---2 of my FRN knives were "off center" out of the box. Not that it matters, but I like mine to be centered when closed if possible. However, both were extremely easy to center just by loosening the screws slightly, putting pressure on the handle in the direction I wanted to create more space, and re-tightening (the Unit method :D ). They are now very well-centered. And BTW, I have at least 2 knives from Golden that are off center, and I can't tweak the handle because the liners and scales are too strong/stiff. It doesn't matter to me anymore though. But the Seki FRN models are the easiest models for me to adjust the blade and center it in.

The Deacon · #19

Moki, the maker of the Caly 3 and 3.5, turns out some excellent knives. So does the Taiwanese maker who produces the Sage series. Midlocks tend to have more parts than Walker or Reeve locks. That, in turn, means thus more "things" to fit and to finish and thus more opportunity for those who demand perfection to find imperfections. As has been mentioned, if one is fussy about fit and finish, the only way to insure get a knife that's acceptable to one's personal standards is to purchase in person from a dealer willing to allow inspection of their entire inventory.

But, then again, among the half dozen FRN Stretches that have been through my hands, I've yet to find one with anything I'd consider worth reporting as a fit and finish issue. I'm of the opinion that things should be judged as they're normally used which, in the case of knives, means at approximately arms length rather than with a jewelers loupe or from photos where they're shown at 10 times or more their actual size. Even the best looking female posterior will look like the surface of the moon under high enough magnification.

The Mentaculous · #20

The Deacon wrote:Moki, the maker of the Caly 3 and 3.5, turns out some excellent knives. So does the Taiwanese maker who produces the Sage series. Midlocks tend to have more parts than Walker or Reeve locks. That, in turn, means thus more "things" to fit and to finish and thus more opportunity for those who demand perfection to find imperfections. As has been mentioned, if one is fussy about fit and finish, the only way to insure get a knife that's acceptable to one's personal standards is to purchase in person from a dealer willing to allow inspection of their entire inventory.

But, then again, among the half dozen FRN Stretches that have been through my hands, I've yet to find one with anything I'd consider worth reporting as a fit and finish issue. I'm of the opinion that things should be judged as they're normally used which, in the case of knives, means at approximately arms length rather than with a jewelers loupe or from photos where they're shown at 10 times or more their actual size. Even the best looking female posterior will look like the surface of the moon under high enough magnification.

hahaha! Good point. Nothing can have 100% perfect fit and finish. Don't tell them that though :p