Why change the Native?

Jesting Devil · #1

So recently I was looking at the Native model and got to wondering, why did they change the NativeIII to the Native 4??

It seems to me that while most of their models are constantly improved upon through newer generations, the Native seems to have gone backwards! The III appears to have better texture on the handle, a (debatably) better clip, and IMHO a much more nicely executed swedge on the spine. Why were these changed?

I can see the clip change as some don't care for the wire one, but why use LESS effective handle texturing and the kinda ugly swedge that stops halfway through...

Admittedly I don't have either model yet (though I hope to in the future) and I have only very briefly handled a Native 4 so all of my comments are based on my own thoughts and photos. So anyone have both and an opinion of their own? Or just an opinion is welcome too :)

I also really wish there was a PE black version... but oh well! :rolleyes:

ChrisR · #2

The swedge on the old Natives was the main reason I never got one ... it just didn't look right to me - I prefer the cleaner lines of the new one with the really subtle bevel-swedge. Also, NKP often think the old one looks to 'stabby' because the think swedge looks like the top edge is sharpened, like a dagger.

Jesting Devil · #3

Interesting point on the "dagger" look! I realize that I've loved knives my whole life and I actually have a hard time figuring out what will or won't offend NKP (other than size)... lol :rolleyes:

And I guess the aesthetics are a personal thing. To me the new style swedge just looks unfinished. Might grow on me though... :cool:

The Deacon · #4

Short answer, they didn't.

The Native III was dropped for the usual reason, slow sales. The Native IV represented a testbed for the Native V, which is really a revision of the original US made Native, rather than the Native III. As to the "why" on that, I'd guess it's for the same reason they revised their two best sellers, the Delica and Endura, a few years back, namely to keep pace with customer tastes. All screw construction and liners are in vogue, rather than the simplicity offered by a pinned one piece FRN handle.

Evil D · #5

I'm not sure which Native mine is...it's the one piece FRN with the web pattern sides. I love it because of its simplicity. In fact i'm probably going to buy another one in plain edge soon. I particularly like the ergonomics and how the blade and handle are nearly equal lengths. If i changed anything about this knife, i would move the hole closer to the pivot so it's easier to reach with the thumb, and give the pivot screwed construction so i can adjust pivot tension myself. The rest IMO is perfect. Why change it to be like all the other knives? It's cool BECAUSE it's all spear point and staby looking, it's cool BECAUSE of the funky swedge. There are slews of other knives that don't have those features.

bohica1998 · #6

Jesting Devil wrote:I also really wish there was a PE black version... but oh well! :rolleyes:

There is!

http://www.spyderco.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39302

(I got mine from the guy with the pic)

DaBird · #7

Jesting Devil wrote:Interesting point on the "dagger" look! I realize that I've loved knives my whole life and I actually have a hard time figuring out what will or won't offend NKP (other than size)... lol :rolleyes:

And I guess the aesthetics are a personal thing. To me the new style swedge just looks unfinished. Might grow on me though... :cool:

For ME -- a Native without the top swedge just ain't a Native and I highly doubt I'll be getting one except off the secondary market for a cheap price.

The Deacon · #8

Evil D wrote:I'm not sure which Native mine is...it's the one piece FRN with the web pattern sides. I love it because of its simplicity. In fact i'm probably going to buy another one in plain edge soon.

Given that it has an FRN handle, if it's made in Golden it's a C41 Native Lightweight, commonly known as a Native I. Or, if it's made in Japan, it's a C78 Native III.

If it had an all stainless and was made in Japan, it would be a C41 Native II. If it had a CF handle and was made in Japan, it would be a C41 Native IV.

Evil D · #9

Ahh..then i have the Native I as it's made in Golden. Schweeeet :D

DeathBySnooSnoo · #10

That black Native with S30V....looks amazing!! I love it...guess they must be pretty hard to find these days though. So Boo.

Blerv · #11

Like Paul said for all intensive purposes the original Native C41 still exists in FRN handles. The III was a swelled handle with pros and cons to some and simply didn't sell well enough to keep around. The IV was a FFG with CF scales on full steel liners/backing construction.

The 5 should be a mix of what people have liked over the years (sans swedge), FFG, G10 non-swelled handles. Improvements include a FFG CPM- S35v blade, tighter tolerances, and a 4-way clip.

Personally: I do like 3D sculpted/swelled handles as they feel better in hand. They also bulge more in pocket and look odd to some folks. There are perks to hollow-ground/swedged blades too but ya gotta give people what they want. :)

BAL · #12

Different strokes I guess, but the Native 4 is one of my favorite knives. It's a Golden blade, which is a plus for me and I like the size and light weight that disapperas in your pocket. It has a nice feel in the hand and opens easy. There are interesting lines and reflections in the blade when you move it slowly, to make it an aesthetically looking knife. I also am anxious for the Native 5.

The Mentaculous · #13

BAL wrote:Different strokes I guess, but the Native 4 is one of my favorite knives. It's a Golden blade, which is a plus for me and I like the size and light weight that disapperas in your pocket. It has a nice feel in the hand and opens easy. There are interesting lines and reflections in the blade when you move it slowly, to make it an aesthetically looking knife. I also am anxious for the Native 5.

Just FYI for clarification, the one you're talking about appears to be the original Native--all that's been changed is the steel.

I say this because the only Native 4 model was made in Japan, it was the CF FFG version. It did include improvements on the original including a more comfortable choil and FFG, and is very similar in handle and blade design to the upcoming Native 5 (which I am very eager to try!).

I know I'm repeating what has been stated earlier by some of the Spydie-experts, but I just want to make it 100% clear for people who are confused (for a long time, I was confused about the Native order as well).

So to recap the main point--the FRN/S30V Native, which is currently the only one for sale until the Native 5 comes out is not the Native 4, but the original Native with updated steel. I thought it was actually the 4th generation too for a while, but it makes sense that it's not, since the 3 is more refined ergonomically IMO (less sharp points, etc).

As a side note, I'm really excited not just for the new G-10 Native model, but to see how the Native 5 FRN turns out! I can imagine that an updated Native with a cool FRN pattern and 4-way clip could be a serious hit, and I'm also excited at the prospect of all the colors that could easily be used (my No. 1 choice would probably be the dark blue used on the forum Native).

BAL · #14

I guess that I am mistaken then. I have the Native CPMS30V, satin PE SP41PBK (Golden) that I got from CS or KC and I have been calling it the Native 4. One way or the other it's a great knife. Thank's for clarifying.

Jesting Devil · #15

Mentaculous: Thank you for clearing that up! That makes a lot more sense now as to why the changes after the III was discontinued. It really did go backwards! And I kept calling the Native 4... ooops! my bad!

Not hugely excited for the G10 native 5 personally as I feel it fits a somewhat different roll than the light little FRN natives but is there a new FRN model up coming?? Now that would be exciting! Especially if they bring back a black PE...

The Mentaculous · #16

Jesting Devil wrote:Mentaculous: Thank you for clearing that up! That makes a lot more sense now as to why the changes after the III was discontinued. It really did go backwards! And I kept calling the Native 4... ooops! my bad!

Not hugely excited for the G10 native 5 personally as I feel it fits a somewhat different roll than the light little FRN natives but is there a new FRN model up coming?? Now that would be exciting! Especially if they bring back a black PE...

What I've gathered from Sal's posts on the upcoming Native is that the G-10 Native 5 is the introductory model of the new generation of the Native. I believe what he said is that they will take the feedback they get on the G-10 version and put that into make an ideal FRN version. I'm guessing that's a fairly long ways off, considering the G-10 is not out yet (should be the next few months), and the fact that they're using feedback on it to design the FRN model implies that it's in relatively early stages. Plus, I'm not sure if this could add time, but I know they have to go through the process of getting a mold made for it, which is the bulk of the cost when it comes to initially releasing an FRN model.

Hopefully we'll see a Native 5 LW concept model by next year, and I'm very excited to see how it turns out! As this thread talk about, the LW Native is certainly due for an update!

2cha · #17

ChrisR wrote:The swedge on the old Natives was the main reason I never got one ... it just didn't look right to me - I prefer the cleaner lines of the new one with the really subtle bevel-swedge. Also, NKP often think the old one looks to 'stabby' because the think swedge looks like the top edge is sharpened, like a dagger.

Me too.