Spyderco Mule Team MT11P - M390

[Kohbanang]

2nd Austrian must have this one in this steel.Will make a comparsion with my selfmade m390 mule.Get the steel directly from Böhler.Very interested how my heat treating works in comparsion to Spyderco.The edge retention on my is very good,but not so good as M4.#
Thanks Spyderco to make this goodie in this Austrian microclean PM steel. :-)
Stay sharp

[Popsickle]

i need a small fixed blade.... and ive heard amazing things about this steel.

Any plans on a folder in this steel Sal?

[sal]

Any plans on a folder in this steel Sal?

Hi Jwrickma,

We'll probably use it in something. Depends on what our customers want.

sal

[Ankerson]

I think it will be interesting to see what the feedback is once these get out. :)

[mongatu]

It sounds like an interesting steel. If the feedback is good, I might pick up my first Mule if any are still available at that point.

[Guy Vanderveken]

Good Day,
New to these forums, always drawn to the ergonomics of Spyderco, love the exotic steels now offered, and really excited about these M390 mules.
They will be my first, but loving the whole Idea, just wish I new about it earlier, want to EDC one.
I am hoping that being in South Africa will not hamper my ability to procure them, as we cannot get the exotic Manix, Milie and Para2 in the sprint runs- Just excited about getting on to the project.
Really happy to see Ankerson and Sal here, plenty of practical knowledge.
Cheers,
Guy

[phaust]

Here is a video on how Bohler makes its PM steel http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YZRquCR1TA

I hope we see more mules with Bohler steels. The compositions of Vanadis 10 and 60 seem interesting. 10 has more vanadium than S90v, while 60 has a decent amount of it (6.5%) plus lots of moly (7%) and tungsten (6.5%).

[N. Brian Huegel]

As the M390 is virtually identical to Carpenter CTS-204P are there any plans to use it in a future Mule or ClipIt?

[Popsickle]

What's better elmax or m390? Both are stainless correct?

[Ankerson]

What's better elmax or m390? Both are stainless correct?

Both steels are very stain resistant and were developed for the plastics industry.

M390 has better edge retention while ELMAX is tougher.

[JNewell]

Both steels are very stain resistant and were developed for the plastics industry.

M390 has better edge retention while ELMAX is tougher.

"M390 has better edge retention while ELMAX is tougher at RC__" ??? :D

[Popsickle]

"M390 has better edge retention while ELMAX is tougher at RC__" ??? :D

59-61 i think....

[Ankerson]

"M390 has better edge retention while ELMAX is tougher at RC__" ??? :D

The same HRC....

[sal]

Hi Guy,

Welcome to the Spyderco forum.

Hey Brian,

We generally try to do what our customers ask us to. We do have something in-the-works for CTS-204P (knife). I imagine a Mule Team is possible if you want one.

sal

[Ankerson]

Hi Guy,

Welcome to the Spyderco forum.

Hey Brian,

We generally try to do what our customers ask us to. We do have something in-the-works for CTS-204P (knife). I imagine a Mule Team is possible if you want one.

sal

Adding a little background on CTS 204P...

CTS 204P is a 2nd Generation Power Steel while M390 is a 3rd Generation Powder Steel.

Carpenter has been making CTS 204P for awhile and selling it to Latrobe Steel and it's marketed as Duratech 20CV. (Before Carpenter got interested in the knife industry)

So CTS 204P and Duratech 20CV are 2nd Generation Powder Steels.

All are good steels and all are clean and advanced so a knife in CTS 204P will be excellent. :D

One thing That would be interesting to see is if either Carpenter or Bohler would come out with their version of S110V in the future. :D

Won't hold my breath for that one though for various reasons.

[Guy Vanderveken]

Thank you Sal,

Ankerson, out of curiosity Is there not a limit to where the steels can go?

As with the high vanadium steels 3V- 15V and with the tungsten steels M2 and M4 we see more of an advance with even distribution, cleanliness and purification with later generations in powder meturlagy-

Even Sandvick 12C27 with its low carbon content etc is a good performer, due to it been so purified.
Here in South Africa most knife makers cut their teeth on it, and stick to it as it is so forgiving to work with and the users especially with hunters, enjoy its quick touch up ability.

How does ZDP-189 rate with these pm steels(M390 and Elmax)? and what generation do you find ZDP in?

Thank you,
Guy

[Ankerson]

Thank you Sal,

Ankerson, out of curiosity Is there not a limit to where the steels can go?

As with the high vanadium steels 3V- 15V and with the tungsten steels M2 and M4 we see more of an advance with even distribution, cleanliness and purification with later generations in powder meturlagy-

Even Sandvick 12C27 with its low carbon content etc is a good performer, due to it been so purified.
Here in South Africa most knife makers cut their teeth on it, and stick to it as it is so forgiving to work with and the users especially with hunters, enjoy its quick touch up ability.

How does ZDP-189 rate with these pm steels(M390 and Elmax)? and what generation do you find ZDP in?

Thank you,
Guy

There is always a limit to the point of diminishing returns. :D

I don't see Stainless getting noticeably better than S110V-S125V because once the Alloy content reaches a certain point rolling out the steels into sheets becomes a real problem.

K294 and K390 are 3rd generation steels, non stainless and can be taken to very high hardness 64+ HRC.

ZDP is an interesting steel, don't know what generation it is, not really much info on it. Performance is around the same as ELMAX around 60 HRC from my testing.

[Guy Vanderveken]

Thank you Ankerson,

That really helps me with my understanding, I appreciate the lengths that you go to to come to your conclusions( I know it is a labour of love for you).

K294 and K390, I take it are from Bohler Udderholm - Can they be forged or only stock removal?

Do have many of the Mule Team knives? It would seem that wis a project designed for you in mind- having said that, comparrisons between Hitachi Blue and s30v etc, purly on performance cutting, edge retention and toughness, how do rate the difference or have we surpassed that mark and stainless is getting more research as of now?

Thank you,
Guy

[Guy Vanderveken]

Ankerson,

Just out of curiosity, where do you put RWL 34, same as CPM 154.

What are the Mule Team Knives that you prefer and want to see?

Thank you,
Guy

[Ankerson]

Thank you Ankerson,

That really helps me with my understanding, I appreciate the lengths that you go to to come to your conclusions( I know it is a labour of love for you).

K294 and K390, I take it are from Bohler Udderholm - Can they be forged or only stock removal?

Do have many of the Mule Team knives? It would seem that wis a project designed for you in mind- having said that, comparrisons between Hitachi Blue and s30v etc, purly on performance cutting, edge retention and toughness, how do rate the difference or have we surpassed that mark and stainless is getting more research as of now?

Thank you,
Guy

Ankerson,

Just out of curiosity, where do you put RWL 34, same as CPM 154.

What are the Mule Team Knives that you prefer and want to see?

Thank you,
Guy

RWL is the same steel as CPM 154 so I expect them to be the same at the same hardness. :)

K294 and K390 would be stock removal, no reason to forge them as they are 3rd generation power steels.

With Steels like S110V, M390, S90V and ELMAX we really don't need to go with carbon steels at this point unless they are K294, 10V, K390 and 15V to really get the max out of the knives.

I don't think M4 is worth the effort with K390 available now.