Best edc with potential SD role blade? (poll)

[tacticooledc]

Looking through the catalogue today after considering the p'kal and came across 3 blades that sort of resemble each other to me (blade shape for the most part, locking mechanism, size, etc).

Was wondering what you guys would rate the better of the three, though I have a feeling I already know the answer

[tacticooledc]

My bad, just noticed the caly 3.5 is a lockback >__<

[jimnolimit]

i can't sing enough praises about the para 2. if i though of all the things i would want in a knife that i carry in my pocket everywhere, the para 2 is it. i like the para 2 so much, i know by the end of the year i will probably own 2-3 of them (i got mine 2 days ago and im already thinking about buying another one).

[tacticooledc]

i can't sing enough praises about the para 2. if i though of all the things i would want in a knife that i carry in my pocket everywhere, the para 2 is it. i like the para 2 so much, i know by the end of the year i will probably own 2-3 of them (i got mine 2 days ago and im already thinking about buying another one).

Could you list your most favorite things about the knife? Just curious :D

[jimnolimit]

1. very solid construction.
2. buttery smooth opening.
3. solid lock-up.
4. the G10 they're using has great grip.
5. large spydie-hole. big enough that i can easily open it with a glove on.
6. the handle shape is very comfortable in my hand.
7. even though it's built tough, it's light weight (3.8 oz).
8. if you use the clip, it can be mounted on all 4 corners.
9. the jimping keeps your fingers in place like glue.
10. excellent blade shape.
11. the fact that i have opened and closed the knife 8 times while writing this :D . this knife just feels right when i hold it/use it.

[Buffalohump]

You can cut/stab someone with practically any knife..... but its not really the tool but the person wielding it that makes the difference in the end.

A trained person with a small knife pocket knife will prevail over an untrained person with a huge bowie every time.

Of the list, I would choose Para 2 because personally I feel it will edge out the Superleaf as a great EDC, although possibly the Superleaf would make a better fighter.

Again, its all moot unless you are willing to train your butt off with the knife of yr choosing. And given that none of these come with a trainer, you might be better off with an Endura. :p

[vaa]

Even though the Para 2 is my favorite to carry and use, I think the Caly 3.5 puts a great slicing and a good SD blade into a very small and easily pocketable package.

[Samwise]

The Manix 2, possibly if you're looking for something a little more heavy duty. Great ergos, ungodly smooth lock, very easy to open, and well textured. The full liners and hollow grind kinda add some weight, but it's a little bit tougher.

[chuck_roxas45]

I'd say any of those will do fine if you have the proper training.

[psychophipps]

If it's for defense, I would go with a Street Beat. Same approximate blade length, fantastic ergonomics, and much easier to access if, like most SD situations, you're already behind the curve once you realize what's going on.

[jackknifeh]

I believe the training would be 99% of what it would take to get into a knife fight and come out ahead, meaning alive with minimal injuries. Plus with training I'm sure part of the course would include weapon choices. If you have no training (like me) I've decided if I ever carry something with SD in mind it would be something that is capable of doing massive amounts of damage to the other human being's body. It would need to be able to cut through clothing (maybe a coat in winter) and then cut enough flesh to spill lots and lots of blood quickly or possibly leave the person lifeless. Sorry about being a little graphic but that is what we are talking about isn't it?

If I pulled out a weapon that would easily do what I described hopefully my oponent would think twice and forget the whole thing. That would be my goal. I have never carried a knife with SD in mind because I wouldn't know how to use it. Any weapon I could use effectively would not be a legal one. I'm thinking machete. Other than that, based on my fighting experience, I'd better just give up my wallet, call the cops and keep myself out of the hospital or jail.

Jack

[NAKK77]

my superleaf functions well both ways, and is always on my side while on-duty.

[Michael Cook]

:spyder: Save the money you'd spend on a new knife and get a trainer and some Mike Janich videos or get a trainer and go to one of mike janich's seminars. The blade's worse than useless without training :spyder:

[VashHash]

Training is key but you were also looking at the pkal. The pkal requires training but its gross motor skill to stab and stab and stab. The wave feature opens the knife for you. If you're not going to train and want to stab this would be a good sd and EDCable knife. The hawkbill is good for pull cuts and opening boxes and letters. I'm not saying rgei is better than other styles just gross motor skills are easily remembered. Most people are familiar with a hammer fist hit. Personally I carry a pkal and would use it in rgei but I would try to target tendons and what not to stop my opponent from moving. There was a study somewhere about it taking 90seconds of blood loss to incapacitate a person. 90 seconds is a long time in a close qaurters situation like a knife fight. If you target muscles tendonds and just disabling mobility you can reduce that fight time drastically. Of course stab the right spot and you can end the fight instantly. But good luck getting to the brainstem and severing it. I'm carrying the massad ayoob today in se. I would consider the pe version a very suitable edc and sd blade. The angles on this thing are amazing and well thought out. When the sprint comes out I'll be buying one. It also has good blade length in a slim package. Don't let the lockbacks fool you they are strong knives. Even. A stab to. The heart won't stop a fight instantly. Sometimes a knife through the skull doesn't either. Severing the brainstem effectively stops a targt because it stops bodily functions that are very vital and kills all muscle control. I know that's a little off topic just putting it out there. Like I said though its not an easytarget and has to be accessed from behind unless you have a long knife and go through the front.

[defenestrate]

I chose the Superleaf out of that list because I think the handle would be the best out of that bunch for weapon retention purposes - I would probably take the Manix2 over any of them for SD because I prefer the lock and the handle is incredibly grippy.

VashHash,

Going through the front, severing the carotid arteries and/or jugular veins tends to be fairly effective as well, maybe not instantaneous stop like brainstem type strikes, but easier to effectively hit and the instant loss of blood pressure to the brain (particularly from the carotids) tends to shut any mamallian target down pretty quickly. However, trying to be that precise on a moving target is going to be pretty difficult if you are engaged with it, adrenalin pumping, the target probably not welcoming such a strike, etc.

[tacticooledc]

Wow, sure seems not many people like the cali3.5.
I'm actually leaning more toward the p'kal again, though the paramil2 is pretty close.

Manix is a fine knife but that's what I have my h&k benchmade folder for (axis lock, similar blade shape, full liners except the action is smoother than any knife i've held)

problem with training is its hard to tell the legit places from scams, just like most martial arts 'schools' around here in orange county california. What a joke.

Guess im left with videos and slashing at thin air

[unit]

2 things that always seem to ring out in threads like these.

1. Training.
2. The BEST knife is the one on you when you need it.


Many say a knife is useless with out knowledge and practice for using it. I say all that is useless if your ultimate SD knife is home in the safe.

Sort of like the martial artist that trained such that he could deliver a fatal kick with his bare feet...he got his butt whooped while he was taking his shoes off. Your training and tools of choice need to be practical such that you will always have them with you.

Have a nice weekend!

[Blerv]

Wow, sure seems not many people like the cali3.5.
I'm actually leaning more toward the p'kal again, though the paramil2 is pretty close.

Manix is a fine knife but that's what I have my h&k benchmade folder for (axis lock, similar blade shape, full liners except the action is smoother than any knife i've held)

problem with training is its hard to tell the legit places from scams, just like most martial arts 'schools' around here in orange county california. What a joke.

Guess im left with videos and slashing at thin air

There are schools that train blade and those that pretend to. Pick the first.

The P'Kal really doesn't fit with 99% of the methodology out there. This means you are going to work your own curriculum or follow some of the more obscure practitioners. Not to say it can't be done, but you won't find the same level of training at your standard FMA school. Shivworks, Piper, and a select few teachers will get you the rest of the way.

For this reason I honestly think you CANT compare a P'Kal to a Para, Manix, etc. You might as well talk knife vs kerambit vs gun vs club because it's about as relative of a comparison.

What's your background? If you don't have a history of innovating your own stuff I would seek out the trainer of choice and then pick the tool.

PS: No, the Caly3.5 is probably the worst choice of the bunch for SD. Look at the handle and lock in comparison to the rest. Even the G10 Persian is a better pick.

[pmbspyder]

Since I have no formal knife training, it was always told to me (by friends who did have martial blade training) that the slash cut is the best technique to employ in a defensive situation for one with no training. That's why knives like the matriarch were produced (the story behind them), though it would be fairly impractical as an edc.

I saw a video posted a while ago with Mike Janich (I think, but please don't quote me on this) where he said one of his favorite sd knives was the tasman salt for its hawkbill and slashing abilities. So I guess long story short, with no formal training I would suggest a tasman or spyderhawk, both pe. Just my $.02!

Forgot to say that in my use I've found hawkbills to be among the most useful edc (though challenging for stuff like food prep)

[markg]

Most believe the opposite is true, that inline, "stabs" are a more natural/gross motor skill and what most will revert to under stress. That being true, hawkbill blades loose the ability to do this and for that are less preferable for this application.

Just some thoughts.

Asking folks what the best "self-defense" knife is, on an open forum, is not the most advisable of questions. Why? God forbid you have to defend yourself. Because the day you draw that knife, you will be under suspicion. And any prosecutor worth their salt will find this thread and show a jury where you were "seeking advice about the best knife to kill people..." Wait, that was not what you asked? A jury of your peers will be made up of soccer moms and grandmothers who don't really make find a difference between self-defense and killing... And then all those bloody pictures. Factor in the liability for all knife lovers also and Spyderco itself.

We Amercians are weapons centric. We think if we have the right knife, we win. If it has a good lock, fits the hand, sticks, pokes, and cuts... Well there it is good to go. Many people have been sent to meet their Maker with cheap Chinese flea market knives, and those crappy things you get at truck stops. I can show you pictures of people in the morgue stabbed with forks, pencils, pens, screwdrivers... Any knife in the list works, heck even the Caly 3.5.

There is a subtle seduction to being weapons centric... We feel that if we slip a knife in our pocket, we are safe, ready for battle. Really?

A criminal has impaired judgment and thinking. The part of their brain that considers things like appropriate behavior, consequences, and the like... It is not working (for whatever reason). But yours is... So if your only response to an assault is your knife you are stuck with a quandary. You either have make a decision in a moment that this this a lethal force encounter justifying the use of a lethal weapon. So you draw that knife and it was not a lethal force encounter... Well hope you enjoy prison food... Or worse yet, you think... And think too long and it a lethal force encounter. Hope your life insurance is paid. Most knife encounters are going to be when you are at a disadvantage, they are not like the silly "marker duels" we got into in high school. You better know how to deal with that encounter, without your knife, because it is in your pocket. Don't believe that? Ask anyone who has done any drawing practice under stress/force on force.

A good knife curriculum will use the age old idea that one uses the same movements/skills armed and unarmed. This commonality of movement simplifies training and makes it more effective. For example Mike's MBC Curriculum will employ the same movement/responses either armed with a knife or unarmed counter blade skills.

The pat politically correct answer to these questions is "you need training." Sort of like when something bad happens to someone, they "need counseling." But as the OP points out, that is easier said than done. Your journey starts someplace. If you try to find the "perfect system/school" you will never find it. Start training. Yea some of it will not work, some things you will find ineffective or even silly. But it is a journey. You start there, you go here, you move there, you keep learning, you grow, you find new things, new teachers... Don't ever drink the Kool Aid... Keep listening, keep seeking. It is a long journey, but you have to love it. If not, well then you were never cut out for it. Buy good locks, a big dog, and a gun. You will never get married if you look for the perfect girl. You will never start your training if you are looking for the perfect system. There are some good ones out there. Learn to be a good student, and you will be amazed at what you can learn. :)