The rule regarding Selling, Soliciting and Advertising has always been part of our forum rules. A few years back some creative members started subtly listing Spyderco items that they were searching for in their signature lines. It was done so in a very unobtrusive manner (small font, subdued color, etc.). We discussed it here and agreed to let it ride as it wasn't something distracting, nor was it something that other members were reporting as a violation.
However, since that time, we've seen the subtleness become bright colors, fonts are increasingly larger and more and more are being reported as a violation. This has forced us to re-evaluate allowing the signature lines. The time it takes to address the report, to address the member reported and dealing with confusion or anger has become an issue.
For those reasons, effective immediately, the following rule has been amended and signature lines are now included. If you have a signature line that includes anything related to this rule (looking for, selling, trading, buying, etc.) please remove it.
Do not post or transmit any unsolicited advertising, promotional materials, or any other forms of solicitation in Spyderco Forum. This includes the trading and selling of knives or other goods. This includes any listing of any kind, a forum thread, post or signature line.
The forum rules have been updated, the global announcement of Forum Guidelines has also been updated.
There will be a two week grace period. If after two weeks, we see a signature line that violates this rule, we will remove it.
If you have any questions, please post them here. Thank you for your understanding and your cooperation. We hate to have to make a hard-and-fast rule, but unfortunately we've been left with no choice.
Kristi
Selling/WTB/LOOKING FOR/WTT Forum Rule
Selling/WTB/LOOKING FOR/WTT Forum Rule
There is nothing more important than this one day.
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DeathBySnooSnoo
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CanisMajor
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Might be slightly off-topic but I was wondering if anyone else feels that signature lines should be limited to a certain number of lines.
I don't mind a few lines as I am sig line of my own but it seems like everyone is now listing their current knives in their collection or what's coming in the mail and it seems like this could add up to a lot of wasted space.
I don't mind a few lines as I am sig line of my own but it seems like everyone is now listing their current knives in their collection or what's coming in the mail and it seems like this could add up to a lot of wasted space.
We would rather be the knife in your pocket, because is "works" better, than the knife in your showcase, because it "looks" better.
sal
sal
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Pneumothorax
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Thanks for the clarification, Kristi.
___________________________________________
2011: G10 Dragonfly ^ Breeden Rescue ^ Bug ^ Honeybee ^ Centofante 3 ^ Woodcraft Mule ^SFO Visit Buys = Frn Stretch & Native 4 CF!! ^ Salt 1 ^ Burgundy Calypso ZDP-189 ^ Walker Blue Almite ^ Native 5 ^ Squeak ^ Chaparral ^ Urban Olive Green ^ STREET BEAT!!...
2012: Caly Jr (vintage/NIB!), SS Navigator-fave LBK of all time, Jester, Orange Dodo, CS Orange PM2,Techno, Bradley! AIR!!
2011: G10 Dragonfly ^ Breeden Rescue ^ Bug ^ Honeybee ^ Centofante 3 ^ Woodcraft Mule ^SFO Visit Buys = Frn Stretch & Native 4 CF!! ^ Salt 1 ^ Burgundy Calypso ZDP-189 ^ Walker Blue Almite ^ Native 5 ^ Squeak ^ Chaparral ^ Urban Olive Green ^ STREET BEAT!!...
2012: Caly Jr (vintage/NIB!), SS Navigator-fave LBK of all time, Jester, Orange Dodo, CS Orange PM2,Techno, Bradley! AIR!!
Hi,
since this is a very enforced rule, perhaps it could be explained in the stickies/guidelines a bit further? I mean _why_ it is not allowed.
People tend to notice and follow a rule much better once they know why it is there. Having just a legal type of a text will not make the point as well as you wish..
I'm sure this is explained by someone in some of the threads discussing this item, but I'd imagine it would help to get the point across more efficiently to have an explanation for it in the guidelines.
Just a thought, thanks for maintaining a nice forum! :)
-pjt
since this is a very enforced rule, perhaps it could be explained in the stickies/guidelines a bit further? I mean _why_ it is not allowed.
People tend to notice and follow a rule much better once they know why it is there. Having just a legal type of a text will not make the point as well as you wish..
I'm sure this is explained by someone in some of the threads discussing this item, but I'd imagine it would help to get the point across more efficiently to have an explanation for it in the guidelines.
Just a thought, thanks for maintaining a nice forum! :)
-pjt
One of the downfalls of close relationships is finances. Money and property is a great way to turn something sweet into something sour.
Companies like eBay are designed formally to sell/buy safely with a relatively private system of conflict resolution. They aren't perfect but much more so. A forum like this carries a completely different vibe than a BST forum (its positive).
Lastly this is a forum by Spyderco, for Spyderco. Used knives are not their business unless they are being serviced. Would you sell your car on a dealerships property because they had better lighting? Many dealers have been subtly drumming up business wearing two hats (dealer and enthusiast). Most forums would even require sponsorship payment for this opportunity.
Lastly lastly :) . The bulk of us enthusiasts would rather not see it. I come here to share and learn...then I shop. Threads get sidetracked enough without shopping taking precedence.
My coupon for "2 cents" (actual cash value 1/3200's of one cent)
Companies like eBay are designed formally to sell/buy safely with a relatively private system of conflict resolution. They aren't perfect but much more so. A forum like this carries a completely different vibe than a BST forum (its positive).
Lastly this is a forum by Spyderco, for Spyderco. Used knives are not their business unless they are being serviced. Would you sell your car on a dealerships property because they had better lighting? Many dealers have been subtly drumming up business wearing two hats (dealer and enthusiast). Most forums would even require sponsorship payment for this opportunity.
Lastly lastly :) . The bulk of us enthusiasts would rather not see it. I come here to share and learn...then I shop. Threads get sidetracked enough without shopping taking precedence.
My coupon for "2 cents" (actual cash value 1/3200's of one cent)
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The Deacon
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I agree with Blerv.
I don't think every decision Spyderco makes regarding the rules for this forum needs to be explained and justified. We are, after all merely guests here.
But, if reasons are needed, I can think of plenty.
First and foremost would be the work needed to set up and administer a sales area with some reasonable safeguards. Remember that most, if not all the forums with sales areas also require paid membership to sell. That accomplishes two things. First, it connects a real name, real address, and real telephone number with the member. Second, it shows at least a minimal level of commitment to that forum which, while it may not totally eliminate fly-by-nighters, at least cuts down on the number of them. Even those systems are not perfect. BladeForums not only requires paid membership to sell, it has a whole forum devoted to "feedback", and folks still lie, cheat, steal, get lazy, get sick, or die in the midst of a deal.
Next, it would require more moderator presence. No matter what rules were drawn up for it, those rules would be violated. One need look no further than the number of threads which get posted on the wrong subforums to realize that some folks would either not read, or not understand the rules. And, just as happens with the current "no selling" and "no politics" rules, some would have the balls to preface their sales pitch with "I know this isn't allowed here, but".
All of that would mean they'd have to set up and moderate a "Feedback" forum as well, and those can require more moderation that the sales forum itself, since at least some of the folks posting there believe they've just been screwed.
That's all time and effort which at least some of us would much prefer Spyderco to spend making knives and dreaming up and implementing new designs.
Not to mention the problems when the tender little feelings of folks "shut out" of a given transaction get hurt because someone would only sell CONUS, wouldn't lie on the Customs form and say it was a gift, or demands the buyer cover his PayPal fees.
I don't think every decision Spyderco makes regarding the rules for this forum needs to be explained and justified. We are, after all merely guests here.
But, if reasons are needed, I can think of plenty.
First and foremost would be the work needed to set up and administer a sales area with some reasonable safeguards. Remember that most, if not all the forums with sales areas also require paid membership to sell. That accomplishes two things. First, it connects a real name, real address, and real telephone number with the member. Second, it shows at least a minimal level of commitment to that forum which, while it may not totally eliminate fly-by-nighters, at least cuts down on the number of them. Even those systems are not perfect. BladeForums not only requires paid membership to sell, it has a whole forum devoted to "feedback", and folks still lie, cheat, steal, get lazy, get sick, or die in the midst of a deal.
Next, it would require more moderator presence. No matter what rules were drawn up for it, those rules would be violated. One need look no further than the number of threads which get posted on the wrong subforums to realize that some folks would either not read, or not understand the rules. And, just as happens with the current "no selling" and "no politics" rules, some would have the balls to preface their sales pitch with "I know this isn't allowed here, but".
All of that would mean they'd have to set up and moderate a "Feedback" forum as well, and those can require more moderation that the sales forum itself, since at least some of the folks posting there believe they've just been screwed.
That's all time and effort which at least some of us would much prefer Spyderco to spend making knives and dreaming up and implementing new designs.
Not to mention the problems when the tender little feelings of folks "shut out" of a given transaction get hurt because someone would only sell CONUS, wouldn't lie on the Customs form and say it was a gift, or demands the buyer cover his PayPal fees.
Paul
My Personal Website ---- Beginners Guide to Spyderco Collecting ---- Spydiewiki
Deplorable :p
WTC # 1458 - 1504 - 1508 - Never Forget, Never Forgive!
My Personal Website ---- Beginners Guide to Spyderco Collecting ---- Spydiewiki
Deplorable :p
WTC # 1458 - 1504 - 1508 - Never Forget, Never Forgive!
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phillipsted
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There are plenty of other forums for this type of BST activity. I don't think anyone is going to be inconvenienced by taking their swapping elsewhere.
Kristi, I appreciate all the hard work and dedication you and and the Firm put into customer service - this forum included. It is your hallmark (well... that, and seriously cool blades!) :cool:
TedP
Kristi, I appreciate all the hard work and dedication you and and the Firm put into customer service - this forum included. It is your hallmark (well... that, and seriously cool blades!) :cool:
TedP
Hi,
I think you got me a bit wrong there guys.. I'm not against the rule - I was saying what I did because I thought it would better guide the people in the right direction when posting. Just to add a sentence or two. In practise does not cost anything but highlights the issue to those that take the time to read the text. Maybe it would help in the admin stuff a bit.. Well, in my opinion it would not hurt in any case - I am not changing that, the admins will decide whether it is something for them or not
But thanks Blerv and Deacon for the replies - I do appreciate the time you guys took to write what you did, very thorough stuff. Makes perfect sense and I agree.
Except I'd say we're not "merely guests here", we're also the customers who buy the stuff in the end so I'd put a bit more weight on what we members are here for. The virtual presence of a company can be a valuable asset to the "brand" nowadays. And it works both ways, the company gets something as well, just look at the threads when Spyderco has asked the opinions of the members on future model features etc.
I am so glad that Spyderco keeps this Forum and it is a good place for info, guidance and news. With good manners. Definitely a "pro" factor for them. Go :spyder: !
And by looking at the pix and lists that describe the member :spyder: collections here, we're pretty good customers too! :cool:
-pjt
I think you got me a bit wrong there guys.. I'm not against the rule - I was saying what I did because I thought it would better guide the people in the right direction when posting. Just to add a sentence or two. In practise does not cost anything but highlights the issue to those that take the time to read the text. Maybe it would help in the admin stuff a bit.. Well, in my opinion it would not hurt in any case - I am not changing that, the admins will decide whether it is something for them or not
But thanks Blerv and Deacon for the replies - I do appreciate the time you guys took to write what you did, very thorough stuff. Makes perfect sense and I agree.
Except I'd say we're not "merely guests here", we're also the customers who buy the stuff in the end so I'd put a bit more weight on what we members are here for. The virtual presence of a company can be a valuable asset to the "brand" nowadays. And it works both ways, the company gets something as well, just look at the threads when Spyderco has asked the opinions of the members on future model features etc.
I am so glad that Spyderco keeps this Forum and it is a good place for info, guidance and news. With good manners. Definitely a "pro" factor for them. Go :spyder: !
And by looking at the pix and lists that describe the member :spyder: collections here, we're pretty good customers too! :cool:
-pjt
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redhawk44357
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from the post in the main page, obviously you will have to hang this in large DAY-GLOW letters so anybody wandering in will get the message.TazKristi wrote:The rule regarding Selling, Soliciting and Advertising has always been part of our forum rules. A few years back some creative members started subtly listing Spyderco items that they were searching for in their signature lines. It was done so in a very unobtrusive manner (small font, subdued color, etc.). We discussed it here and agreed to let it ride as it wasn't something distracting, nor was it something that other members were reporting as a violation.
However, since that time, we've seen the subtleness become bright colors, fonts are increasingly larger and more and more are being reported as a violation. This has forced us to re-evaluate allowing the signature lines. The time it takes to address the report, to address the member reported and dealing with confusion or anger has become an issue.
For those reasons, effective immediately, the following rule has been amended and signature lines are now included. If you have a signature line that includes anything related to this rule (looking for, selling, trading, buying, etc.) please remove it.
Do not post or transmit any unsolicited advertising, promotional materials, or any other forms of solicitation in Spyderco Forum. This includes the trading and selling of knives or other goods. This includes any listing of any kind, a forum thread, post or signature line.
The forum rules have been updated, the global announcement of Forum Guidelines has also been updated.
There will be a two week grace period. If after two weeks, we see a signature line that violates this rule, we will remove it.
If you have any questions, please post them here. Thank you for your understanding and your cooperation. We hate to have to make a hard-and-fast rule, but unfortunately we've been left with no choice.
Kristi
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jylong_away
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- Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2009 9:12 am
Kristi,
I don't have anything like that in my sig line (I don't think there's actually *anything* in there), but would like to clarify something - does this rule also mean we're now prohibited from posting information about various models at various dealer sites?
I've actually found the forum quite useful for keeping up to date with regards to the various sprints runs available, as well as when/where they've been.
Dave
I don't have anything like that in my sig line (I don't think there's actually *anything* in there), but would like to clarify something - does this rule also mean we're now prohibited from posting information about various models at various dealer sites?
I've actually found the forum quite useful for keeping up to date with regards to the various sprints runs available, as well as when/where they've been.
Dave
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defenestrate
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Dave/jylong,
I am pretty sure that descriptions of models would be okay as long as it does not include offers to buy or sell or links to the site itself. For example,
From Jimbo's Knife Shack-
The new Spyderco Manix II with Unobtanium Super Steel is coming soon! New features include the blade steel and Magical Thermoluminescent G11! Like a Glow-in-the-Dark Mood Ring!
is likely okay, whereas a description with links to the site, sale page, or another forum link to Buy/Sell/Trade would not be okay.
Many of us when referring to certain sites might give something like for the example above, JKS as an abbreviation and AFAIK that has been okay previously, but I'm not 100% certain as to where the line is drawn. My immediate sense is that any link to a dealer, manufacturer or e-commerce link would be verboten, as would any signature with requests to buy or offers to sell other models when posted on the forums. (Please correct me if I am off here, Kristi - would like to make sure I have this right as I will gladly make the point clear if I see anything iffy but I'd like to be fairly sure I am not posting any manner of misinformation).
I hope this is both correct and helpful.
I am pretty sure that descriptions of models would be okay as long as it does not include offers to buy or sell or links to the site itself. For example,
From Jimbo's Knife Shack-
The new Spyderco Manix II with Unobtanium Super Steel is coming soon! New features include the blade steel and Magical Thermoluminescent G11! Like a Glow-in-the-Dark Mood Ring!
is likely okay, whereas a description with links to the site, sale page, or another forum link to Buy/Sell/Trade would not be okay.
Many of us when referring to certain sites might give something like for the example above, JKS as an abbreviation and AFAIK that has been okay previously, but I'm not 100% certain as to where the line is drawn. My immediate sense is that any link to a dealer, manufacturer or e-commerce link would be verboten, as would any signature with requests to buy or offers to sell other models when posted on the forums. (Please correct me if I am off here, Kristi - would like to make sure I have this right as I will gladly make the point clear if I see anything iffy but I'd like to be fairly sure I am not posting any manner of misinformation).
I hope this is both correct and helpful.
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Happy, Happy, Happy! Peel, Peel, Peel!
Happy, Happy, Happy! Peel, Peel, Peel!
My guess is no...DeathBySnooSnoo wrote:Is mine alright? Just says Holy Grail...I guess as you can see.
wishlist is kinda the same as "wanted"
Im sure its fine to list what you have however.
Brad Southard
Southard Knives
"Whatever you do, work at it with all your heart, as working for the Lord, not for men," Colossians 3:23
Southard Knives
"Whatever you do, work at it with all your heart, as working for the Lord, not for men," Colossians 3:23
I'm gonna agree with Brad. In the past, this has been viewed as "hinting" or "fishing for a PM".DeathBySnooSnoo wrote:Is mine alright? Just says Holy Grail...I guess as you can see.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] <--- My Spydies <click the dancing banana!>