Spyderco Forums

I have had a very disturbing day :confused: :eek: :mad:

First I have to you know a little more about myself. I am an experienced mechanical designer, that is someone who doesn't have a full fledged BS degree in ME, but because of am initial hands on auto mechanic/construction career, a 2 year AS in Engineering Science, studies in Mech Engineering Tech a few years later and 15 years of current experience in a manufacturing environment I get the opportunity to design and create detail drawings for manufacturing equipment. It's not a lucrative profession, but provides an ample salary that's risen over the years as my experience has progressed.

I'm very good at what I do and get great satisfaction in doing it all the way down to documenting my projects in detail drawings and detailed Engineering Change Orders. I usually work with an engineer's oversight and that's great for me, I learn from the good ones :) I love the work itself and have continually expanded my skill over the years in areas of database creation, management etc.

Finally to the point. Over the last 8 or 9 years I've had to resort to "staffing agencies". Manufacturing companies has gotten very reluctant to hire people with my skills, they prefer to "outsource" these services to make their "bottom line" figures look better to investors.

My current assignment is for a company that manufactures alkaline batteries. It's a very tricky and complicated process with specialized equipment. I had 5 years previous experience in alkaline battery manufacture with a different company also which led to my being hired immediately

2 days ago I found out the major corporation (who bought out a corporation(who bought out a corporation(who bought out a corporation(who bought out out the company I'm working for))) decided to change and make universal the staffing agency they were using. Since I am technically employed by the previous staffing agency I had an interview with the new staffing agency.

I was offered a 28% pay cut to keep on working despite the fact I was hired for an original wage that hasn't changed in 3 years :eek: Folks say they value what I do but I don't know if they have the courage or influence to go to bat for me.

If I let this go through as is my wife and I will have to move, our very modest lifestyle will have to get even more modest, and I will have lost 10 years of experience based advancement in my second career :mad: I will try to negotiate, hopefully some support from managers I'm workng for.

I will have to take something even if it means losing some of the Spyderco's I don't want to lose. I can't help but feel that these mega corporations are increasing their profits at the expense of us folks on the lower end of the income spectrum :mad:

I hope :spyder: remains privately held forever, these publicly corporations are viscious and mean to the folks that serve them :mad: :mad:

I'm so sorry.

Economy is derived from the Greek for family. These large corporations make decisions far removed from realities that guide our choices. Their structures are unreasonable. I suspect there are many ways they could recoup their 28% without effecting the quality of their products or services. It seems that we will need to have more or these soul-less top-heavy corporations go the way of the dinosaur in order to recover our drive to be productive. Nothing motivates like the opportunity for real growth for one's family. It worries me some that a huge set-back is not causing real change in corporate America. It seems as though we have to ride it further into the ground. Ultimately your very real ability to create and design has true value. I hope that they recognize it before they force you to go elsewhere. Prayers offered for you and your employer.

I'm sorry for your situation and understand it better than most. I also work as a mechanical designer and "pseudo-engineer" and feel I am at least as well qualified in my job as the engineers with degrees that I work with. I am very fortunate, however, to work for a relatively small, privately owned company that values my skill set.

I've worked for a large, multi-national company before and if you don't have a piece of paper, they don't bargain with you. It's sad, but they only see the financial numbers and letters behind your name. They rarely look at what function you can provide. I did like their health insurance, but am much happier working for the small, locally-owned company again.

I would press the issue with your supervisor and the other engineers that you work with. A good word from a majority of those who work with you probably has the best shot at getting you what you deserve.

It's unfortunate that companies make decisions based solely on a couple of numbers. Then again, I largely blame middle and upper management for these situations. The real "big whigs" make decisions based on the information they're given. It's the whole "garbage in - garbage out" problem. Most of the guys in the middle are just trying to make their department look better and by cutting wages, they feel they'll get ahead. It seems to take far too long in many instances, but self-serving people like that seem to get what they deserve in the end.

Corporations are mandated by their shareholders to maximize profits; usually at the cost of wages, respect for the environment and delivering a quality product.

My last post of the night because I'm sleepy.

Thanks for the repiles, from what I see the managerial folks are really interested in presentaion materail reflecting what is happening on the floor. They don't so much care about what is actually happening on the production floor rather what they're presentational material will look like in the next "meeting". What they're not doing is caring about what it takes to make a really good product.

From where I sit I gather some real questions on what they teach in "business" school. A design either works or doesn't. If it doesn't figure out why and see if it can be made to work. Realities on the floor have to be met with an engineering mindset and really solved with cooperation of the folks on the floor. Managers sometimes get in the way.

I'll read and post more tomorrow, it's been a hard day..........

I have to tell you Hot Soup, the product quality is most definitely inferior than before. Textbook reply doesn't work in this situation, you would have to understand the process and the way it is being compromised in the name of cost. This kind of manufacture is tricky in many ways.

They keep to the environmental laws because of EPA fear. Don't know how succesful they are there.

JLS I hear you completely and it makes sense. An "engineer" who proudly proclaims his MBA is a dangerous thing. I do have some folks on my side, and am trying to negotiate with the staffing company that came in. I'll reread that email tomorrow morn before I send it.

Thanks for the support folks.

HotSoup wrote:Corporations are mandated by their shareholders to maximize profits; usually at the cost of wages, respect for the environment and delivering a quality product.

That's one way to describe the mandate but gets more complicated when you add time into the equation--maximize profits now versus financial health of the company long term?

The profit vs. time horizon equation gets even more difficult when the people who make the decisions on behalf of the shareholders have staggering bonuses on the line and can make more money in a few short years (of looting shareholder value) than the rest of us combined might make in our entire lives.

The scariest class I took in law school was Corporations--business law and especially the liability (and more especially the lack thereof) of corporate officers and directors.

Just my somewhat informed opinion.

Thank you folks for the replies. Let me tell you how it worked out.

I let some of the folks I work with closely, Engineers, Floor leaders etc. know the situation on Fri. This morning I "pounced" on the engineering manager in a professional but serious way about this proposed paycut. I had a meeting with the engineering manager this afternoon. The manager proposed an 8% pay cut with health insurance benefits included and said they will "guide" the staffing agency because there is a genuine desire to have me remain part of their team. I smiled all the way through that 15 min. meeting even before he mentioned the final offer.

Not being really stupid and fully realizing the current state of the economy and downward wage pressure that currently exists I accepted. I also know now that the transition won't take place for another 4 weeks. I feel a little less scared now :)

I don't mind admitting that on Friday I was scared out of my wits :o

I still don't look kindly on the scruples of mega corporations, but am grateful the local folks value my services. It'll be nice to keep a decent wage although the insurance doesn't look that good. I'll keep my eye on developments during the transition time to make sure someone doesn't try to make an extra buck off of my good service.

My wife and I will just tighten up a little bit and will put off a getaway or 2. I'll give up some spydies I want to check out, but now survival is the game.