To lock or not to lock?

[ChrisR]

I hope this hasn't been done-to-death too many times before - stop me if it has :D But I am interested to explore the different attitudes to non-locking (i.e. slip-joint) knives. The idea came to me while looking at the various anti-SLIPIT remarks in the Forum Knife threads.

Here in the UK slippies are probably the commonest folder - even before case law banned the EDC of lockers. The only people that carried lockers did so by chance more than need or had a specific need for them. So when Sal came up with the UKPK it was met with almost universal praise and it has become the main EDC knife for a lot of people. We all seem to get along just fine with it and love it. But over in the USA there seems to be a greater resistance to non-lockers - I guess partly due to the fact you can (nearly) always carry lockers legally. But I think that non-lockers should still have a place in most people's EDC - if only from their simplicity (no lock to disengage) and the ability to take it anywhere.

So, (avoiding remarks like - "why not?") do we really need to EDC lockers when a SLIPIT would do the same job ... and how many of the people who dislike slippies have actually tried to EDC them for a decent period of time? Don't get me wrong, I would love to have the freedom to carry a locker but I think I would still carry a SLIPIT most days because they are just really easy to open and close :)

[spoonrobot]

But over in the USA there seems to be a greater resistance to non-lockers

Because a large percentage of our population are mall-ninjas and you just can't flip open a slipjoint in a very cool way. :p

In more serious tones, I've tried a UKPK and found the closing to be slower and less appealing than my regular mid-locks. I have no pressing need for locks but I prefer the way they open and close to the slipjoint. Of course, once you start talking about "need" you enter a nebulous area that tends to make people all prickly.

They do seem to have a well defined purpose and if I ever manage a trip to New York or other restrictive area I will pick up another one to carry on said trip. So, I guess you could say that I'm more than happy that the option exists in the marketplace, I just don't see the need to exercise it on an EDC basis.

[ChrisR]

I've tried a UKPK and found the closing to be slower and less appealing than my regular mid-locks.

Yes, I know what you mean - the back-bar on a SLIPIT tends to press firmly on the tang so it gives more resistance to opening but I have heard that the FRNs will be much smoother, and I have noticed that my last 2 UKPKs (G10 & CF) have been very smooth and easy to open. I have arthritic thumbs and wrists, which has made me think more about carrying something smoother like a Caly3 - but I'd need a law-change (or just take the risk) before that was possible :rolleyes:

That said, I find closing a SLIPIT to be much easier than any locker - no lock-release to fiddle with - just hold the knife between finger & thumb, brush the back of the blade against your leg and it closes safely :)

[The Deacon]

I guess partly due to the fact you can (nearly) always carry lockers legally. But I think that non-lockers should still have a place in most people's EDC - if only from their simplicity (no lock to disengage) and the ability to take it anywhere.

That may be true in the UK, but it's not the case here in the US. In many places here, carrying any knife on school grounds, or into most courthouses and certain other government buildings, will get you in trouble. Most blade length laws do not mention locks. Regardless of whether it locks or not, having a knife on your person while committing a crime will get you charged with "weapons possession". So will acting sufficiently belligerent when interacting with a police officer. Granted, non-lockers can't be as easily labeled gravity knives, but I wouldn't even rule that out if someone puts on an epic display of public asshattery. In that last case, it wouldn't stick, but that's not generally the prime concern.

[ChrisR]

In many places here, carrying any knife on school grounds, or into most courthouses and certain other government buildings, will get you in trouble. Most blade length laws do not mention locks.

That's very true - here too. If you are arrested for any kind of violent crime and are carrying even a Swiss Army knife then the police have discretion to throw the book at you - expect an official caution, confiscation and a criminal record at the very least. It's usually advised that you don't carry any blade to a court-room, football match or a night-club ... or just about anywhere where you might be caught up in any violence. It is also illegal to carry any bladed article on school premises - so it sounds like we're pretty similar in many respects.

That aside and for all other EDC situations we just have to be aware that if you are carrying anything except a sub 3-inch, folding, non-locking blade then you have to provide the LEO with a 'good reason' to have it. Work-related uses are allowed (otherwise carpenters or carpet fitters would be in trouble!) as are some religious exemptions (mainly for Sikhs). But we digress :D

I was really interested to hear why a few people in the US are so against SLIPITs (almost out of principle, rather than logic) when they actually make darn good EDC blades - especially for around towns. It's rare for people to knock a UKPK on it's design or use-ability but it's fairly common to hear 'I have no use for a non-locker', which to me is sad because it seems that they aren't being given a chance in some people's EDC rotation :)

[The Deacon]

I was really interested to hear why a few people in the US are so against SLIPITs (almost out of principle, rather than logic) when they actually make darn good EDC blades - especially for around towns. It's rare for people to knock a UKPK on it's design or use-ability but it's fairly common to hear 'I have no use for a non-locker', which to me is sad because it seems that they aren't being given a chance in some people's EDC rotation :)

I'll admit, it's somewhat odd. Probably has something to do with the fact we're allowed to carry them. If the government suddenly mandated that only locking folders could be carried for safety reasons, our rebellious natures would probably make many of us carry SlipIts in protest. There much truth to the saying that forbidden fruit always tastes sweeter.

At least it would probably work that way for me. I know it's sensible to wear a helmet when riding a motorcycle (at least around town), and a seat belt when driving. But being told I have to goes against my grain.

[Koen Z]

What is a need, I can do whitout a knife, but a knife makes life easy, and more fun.

I own a UKPK, and use it al lot, the most on school and for office work. It is a nice, sharp and practical blade.

But for much other situations I 'need' a locking folder. Yesterday, I was on a birthday party from a friend of mine, and one of the guests thought it was funny to give a car tyre with money inside it. the last time they did this, the receiver spend half a hour to cut it open with a angle grinder. I knew the sides of most tyres have no steel wire in them, so I cut the whole tyre open in about one minute with my Salt 1.

And such situations happen quite often. I can use a locking knife with more ease and confidence than a non locking knife for the more heavy cutting tasks.

[ChrisR]

That's absolutely true - and it's nice that you have and like your UKPK too. I think there's always an application where a locker is necessary ... just like a Salt or a heavier-duty knife like a Manix might be the better choice - the right tool for the job, etc. :)

[yablanowitz]

I guess I'll go ahead and offend everyone with my opinion. If you don't feel safe using a non-locking folder, it isn't because the folder doesn't lock. It's because you aren't using it safely. If you truly need a lock, you shouldn't be using a folding knife for the job.

Locks allow you to develop bad habits. Those habits will lead to more severe injuries on that day when the lock finally fails to protect you from yourself. Aquire skill and cultivate safe habits and the lock becomes what it was intended to be - a back-up safety feature.

As for the smoothness of operation, some people like half-stops. I'm one of them. Others prefer smooth travel, and I can see the appeal of that as well. Life would be too boring to tolerate if we all liked exactly the same things. That may be why knives are made with and without half-stops, so we can choose which we prefer. I feel that half-stops are a little safer to operate, which may have been a consideration on the UKPK in these lawsuit heavy times.

[2cha]

I guess I'll go ahead and offend everyone with my opinion. If you don't feel safe using a non-locking folder, it isn't because the folder doesn't lock. It's because you aren't using it safely. If you truly need a lock, you shouldn't be using a folding knife for the job.

Locks allow you to develop bad habits. Those habits will lead to more severe injuries on that day when the lock finally fails to protect you from yourself. Aquire skill and cultivate safe habits and the lock becomes what it was intended to be - a back-up safety feature.

SO TRUE!!! I gave a good friend a drop point UKPK that I got a really good deal on. About two weeks later he called me up to say: 1) wow that's a really sharp knife and 2) I put it in the drawer. I was holding it differently than I normally hold a knife because this one doesn't lock and kept cutting myself.

Funny. I carry UKPK rescue now for EDC task knife, I've never come close to cutting myself and don't plan on it. I like that it doesn't lock because it is easy to open and close while holding something in the other hand without adding any extra step (I close on side of leg).

[Bushbadger]

an epic display of public asshattery.

Thankyou Mr Deacon, when I read this I nearly spat my dinner all over the screen. Been a while since I "laughed out loud" :D

[Donut]

In many places here, carrying any knife on school grounds, or into most courthouses and certain other government buildings, will get you in trouble.

Unless you are working there. I accidentally walked into a few of them without thinking about it.

[ChrisR]

Funny. I carry UKPK rescue now for EDC task knife, I've never come close to cutting myself and don't plan on it. I like that it doesn't lock because it is easy to open and close while holding something in the other hand without adding any extra step (I close on side of leg).

Yeah, the only times I have cut myself on a UKPK (that S30V cuts like a light-saber!) was: 1) when my weak thumbs slipped off the Spydie-hole while opening it OR 2) when I switched my brain off and absentmindedly wiped some dirt off the the edge with my thumb ... never again :rolleyes:

You'd have to be doing some very heavy point-first pushing and twisting to even get close to having the blade close on you - and the finger choil would stop it closing anyway, if you were using it correctly.

[The Deacon]

Unless you are working there. I accidentally walked into a few of them without thinking about it.

True, and there's also the point, overlooked by those who favor clipped carry, that the only times a discreetly carried knife would ever be an issue is if you have to go through a metal detector or if you have already done something to warrant a pat down. However, my point was not that legal issues would be a certainty. Simply that, if the knife was detected, you would be in trouble whether or not it had a lock.

[Arcitecht]

Well, I never really thought about this much tbh. The main reason that comes to mind where a lock would be handy is SD. I personally dont plan on ever using a blade for SD (as I am no martial artist), but you never know what could happen, and that lock might come in handy someday.

Another point is that, well, most blades here just do have locks because they can, especially the larger ones. I mean, not very many manufacturers even make medium/large EDC blades with slipjoints, so we just use what we can here.

And If 'they' did make lockers illegal here, hehe, theres no way I'd stop carrying mine. People shouldn't be so docile as to accept something like that, really :D

[SmoothOne25]

ukpk best spydie model made. END...OF...STORY
so, yes slip_it!!!

[SmoothOne25]

off topic for a second:
chris you have two proto cf ukpk ?
smooth and rough? SWEET! you sned me some pics ?

[Donut]

True, and there's also the point, overlooked by those who favor clipped carry, that the only times a discreetly carried knife would ever be an issue is if you have to go through a metal detector or if you have already done something to warrant a pat down. However, my point was not that legal issues would be a certainty. Simply that, if the knife was detected, you would be in trouble whether or not it had a lock.

You know what's funny? Since I've been carrying a cricket as a money clip, I've gone through a few metal detectors and even been patted down. I take it out of my pocket and hold it clip up and they don't even look at it.

I don't expect it to ever be used for self defense, but it seems like everyone is just going through the motions and not really paying much attention.

[Jim Malone]

for me it's like a safety belt in a car. It's nice to know that should your knife suddenly close on your fingers your fingers are not cut off, but there is a lock to prevent it. Is it needed in 95% of mundane tasks? No, but nice to have.

[yablanowitz]

It is exactly like the seatbelts in a car. Drive safely and defensively and the seatbelt never does anything but provide an extra step getting in or out of the car. Rely on them to keep from getting hurt while you drive like an idiot, and eventually they will fail to protect you from the consequences of your poor practices.