Survival Spyders of the Past: i.e. the Vagabond

[JD Spydo]

I've been on a tear here in the past 2 months studying survival hardware. I've got a thread going over on the Off Topic part of the Forum now on the FROST Mora Swedish made survival blades and I see that brother Clovisc was thinking along the same lines.

With Spyderco blades always being very close to my heart I'm now wondering if we all didn't overlook the potential of a great survival blade that Spyderco had in their line up that maybe we all overlooked. I'm speaking of the older fixed blade VAGABOND model. I was well aware of it when it was easy to be had but I was a bit turned off by it because of the AUS-6 steel blade. The 2 other Spyders I've owned with AUS-6 didn't impress me at all.

But I'm thinking that maybe the good folks at Spyderco had something else in mind with that model that maybe we all overlooked. First of all how many of you have a VAGABOND model? How do you like it? >> And do you all who have owned one think that it's a good survival knife? Please expound and tell us what we might have overlooked.

[araneae]

I have one and I do like it. I just don't know that I trust the blade cover 100%. It needs a better carry method than just tossing in a pack. The same knife with an inexpensive sheath would be a winner.

[anson argyris]

The same knife with an inexpensive sheath would be a winner.

The Aqua Salt is basically a Vagabond, just with a longer H-1-Blade and a sheath. But it's not inexpensive ...

[araneae]

But it's not inexpensive ...

Yep, that's the catch...

[JD Spydo]

Yeah I thought about the "Aqua Salt" myself when I started this thread. I even tried to start a thread about the possibility of a fixed blade, H-1 survival knife only to have the idea shot down :confused:

I've taken a second look at the Vagabond and I've wondered if I didn't pre-judge it in a bad light. I sure would have liked it better had it had VG-10 or even AUS-10 blade steel rather than the AUS-6.

I've never held a Vagabond in my hand and I've wondered why they didn't come up with a better sheath system to begin with. I guess it was designed to be very economical from top to bottom. And maybe for that reason I'll just opt for trying to find me another TEmperance I for a bug-out bag kit I'm getting together.

But hey it never hurts to hear what the folks here at Spyderville have to say about a certain model now does it? I'll probably gravitate toward something in the H-1 line up to go with the kit.

[Peter1960]

Form and function of the Vagabond is good design and as you said, it would be better with VG-10 blade steel. I don't think AUS-6 is preffered steel for a working knife for anybody in knive-world.

I always hear molds are very expensive and need high number of knives to make profit, now I wonder why Spyderco does not use existing mold and make new run(s) with VG-10/H-1. That's an inexpensive re-beginning of a second and better life for the Vagabon.

[gaj999]

I liked the looks of the vagabond, as I'm partial to smaller fixed blades. Never pulled the trigger due to the AUS-6.

Now I have a number of Mules that will work a lot better. With a cordwrap handle, a Mule is remarkably light and compact for a BOB. Even with a full-on handle, it's lighter than many heavy duty folders and far more sturdy. We'll except the full-hard ZDP. :D With almost a half-dozen now, one always goes along for the ride when I'm hiking.

I'm not totally sold on the guard on the Mule, but it's easy to get rid of.

Gordon

[Jay_Ev]

But it's not inexpensive ...

I know everyone's idea of expensive is different, but I think it is very inexpensive. It can be had in the $60 range.

[Marion David Poff]

I always hear molds are very expensive and need high number of knives to make profit, now I wonder why Spyderco does not use existing mold and make new run(s) with VG-10/H-1. That's an inexpensive re-beginning of a second and better life for the Vagabon.

The Vagabond mold was re-tooled, to make the Aqua.

Marion

[Clawhammer]

What exactly is a 'survival' knife?

[clovisc]

i feel like the rock salt is the ULTIMATE h1 survival knife!!! and available now at a low price that is simply ridiculously unbelievable!!!! JD -- if you don't have a rock salt... you gotta get yourself one, ASAP!

[Blerv]

The main factor of the mora line that is appealing is the carbon steel. Aus6 is wayyy to soft for a survival blade by most definitions. From my understanding carbon steels like 1095 and some sandvik take a good edge, can be sharpened on a rock, and can be batoned to your hearts content.

I'm far from a steel expert but while some stainless alloys make great fixed blades there are advantages to the cruder designs and grinds. That said, I doubt a user like me could EVER tell a difference.

The real advantage of the Mora is the combo: high carbon, light, sharp scandi grind, $15 cost.

[JD Spydo]

i feel like the rock salt is the ULTIMATE h1 survival knife!!! and available now at a low price that is simply ridiculously unbelievable!!!! JD -- if you don't have a rock salt... you gotta get yourself one, ASAP!

Brother Clovisc the Rock Salt and the new Warrior are both extremely high on my "gotta Have" list. As well as the Temperance II>> which I wish they would do a fully serrated version of.

But while we are on this subject of the VAGABOND model we can at least discuss what we would have liked to have seen on this model. The one brother suggested a VG-10 blade >> I could sure go for that in a nanosecond. A G-10 handle would be great on a fixed blade.

A sheath which could hold a fire starting magnesium block and possibly a Spyderco Doublestuff sharpening stone as well. next?

[JD Spydo]

The one brother asked for a definition of a survival knife. That's a fair question and one that deserves an answer. But on the other hand it's up for interpretation as well because that's like asking what is the definition of a hunting knife.

My idea of a survival knife is one that can withstand a lot of punishment and is geared for hard use and multiple uses. Also I tend to like a fixed blade over a folder for a few reasons. Even though I'm sure I would have a couple of folders in a serious survival environment. Also I would like a sheath that could have a pouch for a sharpening stone and a magnesium ( or flint) fire starting block.

Another qualification that would fit my personal definition of a survival knife would be one made of materials that could withstand many different harsh environments.

I have a few other ideas but those are all good for starters.

[clovisc]

l we can at least discuss what we would have liked to have seen on this model.

ok, ok! :D

i like the idea of an ultra-affordable spyderco fixed blade... something you can easily purchase a couple of, and throw in your vehicle, or a bug out bag. or give as a gift. The aqua salt is pretty amazingly affordable right now (seen them recently for as low as $65!)... it would be great if there were a spydie FB hanging out in that price range. or even a byrd.

were there to be some sort of vagabond redux, I'd prefer an actual sheath. even something inexpensive, like the sheath that comes with the mora scout... just as long as it holds the knife securely.

the steel wouldn't have to be the fanciest, highest-tech steel out there. in fact, many (including myself) would argue that, when it comes to prolongued use, "ease of sharpening" is more important in a survival knife than "edge retention." sure -- maybe a ZDP or 440V or S90V knife will get you through a longer stint... but if you're "surviving" for a longer period of time, are you really going to haul around appropriate sharpening tools for such intense steels?

in a survival situation, it's a big help to have a steel that can be sharpened well enough on a flat rock.

H1 is perfect for a survival steel. So is VG10. AUS-8 is also great for a survival blade. Or ATS-34. Or 440C.

my primary FB knife in Zambia was a BM Fecas Offsider in N690. It was a great combination of ease of sharpening and edge retention. could have been a little tougher, i guess (had a little chipping...). i thought N690 was a great "survival" steel. however, i now vastly prefer the rock salt... :D

but again, i feel like joe is onto something by talking about the need for designing survival-oriented knives.

to me, H1 is, hands down, the best "survival steel" possible.

i've mentioned this before... what about a series of H1 knives marketed towards the survival market, instead of primarily the "marine" market? and what about championing H1's other properties, aside from rust/corrosion resistance? ease of sharpening, work hardening, ease of cleaning/maintenance... heck, an "easy clean knife" might have broader appeal than a "marine knife." i worry that many non-marine folks are shorting themselves by not trying out H1 because they see these knives as being primarily "marine use knives" -- which is only one of MANY possible applications.

what about an "alaskan survival" spydie? or an "alaskan" spydie, or a "survival" spydie? alaska + survival are hot right now, and all over the media... it's been like that for a little while now... and will probably stay like that for a while. :D

-jason

[JD Spydo]

Well Clovisc I agree with about 95% of what you just suggested. One difference is that I personally wouldn't mind a survival blade made with CPM-440V ( S60V) because of it's ability to withstand some pretty ferocious punishment. But at the same time I'm not going to be nit-picky either.

I like your concept of an H-1 line of survival blades even though some of the citizenry here at Spyderville would argue that a few of the current H-1 models such as the ones we've already discussed on this thread are already survival oriented.

This new Warrior model meets a lot of criteria that I would require except for the lofty price tag. Again I would like to see a survival sheath come into play as well. The VAGABOND is not really my ultimate Spyder for survival but it was a step in the right direction. Keep talking because we are heading in the right direction.

[CanisMajor]

to me, H1 is, hands down, the best "survival steel" possible.

i've mentioned this before... what about a series of H1 knives marketed towards the survival market, instead of primarily the "marine" market? and what about championing H1's other properties, aside from rust/corrosion resistance? ease of sharpening, work hardening, ease of cleaning/maintenance... heck, an "easy clean knife" might have broader appeal than a "marine knife." i worry that many non-marine folks are shorting themselves by not trying out H1 because they see these knives as being primarily "marine use knives" -- which is only one of MANY possible applications.

-jason

I have to agree with on H-1 being one heck of a steel and would most definitely be the best steel to use on a new "survival" knife. I bought the Aqua Salt when it dropped to $65 at a certain online shoppe. As soon as I received it, I was amazed at how it wasn't as popular as some other models(at least, it didn't seem like it was). I too feel that there are many people out there that won't try H-1 because it is geared toward marine life. I don't live somewhere where H-1 is a necessity, however I do take trips to rainy climate zones, I can tell you that the Aqua Salt will accompany me on every trip.

If we are talking about what we want from a "survival" knife then a new sheath is definitely needed. One like the new H-1 Warrior sheath, where it can be lashed with paracord, and has a pocket to fit a sharpening stone, flint, etc... just like JD Spydo suggested.

However, Spyderco just released the Bushcraft UK model, which "is" a survival knife. Bushcraft knives are supposed to be able to handle a lot of use, and one would think that they would be somewhat easy to sharpen. For right now, I feel the Bushcraft UK is Spyderco's "survival" knife... at least for a little while.

Canis

[clovisc]

If we are talking about what we want from a "survival" knife then a new sheath is definitely needed. One like the new H-1 Warrior sheath, where it can be lashed with paracord, and has a pocket to fit a sharpening stone, flint, etc... just like JD Spydo suggested.

Canis, you and have similar taste in more things than beer.

I think the new warrior sheath looks awesome. the aqua salt sheath seems 100% dependable... but unfortunately, i haven't had the best luck with the rock salt sheath. i feel like plastic/kydex sheaths may be great for lighter knives, but for something heavier, extra security is needed.

in any case, i do prefer the sort of sheath that comes with the warrior, or the BM fecas offsider. love that little extra pocket. :D

"survival" is an interesting concept. it doesn't have a fixed environment or fixed length of time built into the word... the word by itself could encompass anything from a city, to a remote part of africa. it could suggest to someone a few unexpected hours lost in the woods... or a couple years on a desert island.

for some people, "survival" means making it through a period of temporary inconvenience or hardship. for others, it may mean expecting years performance from a knife in the most primal conditions. the way i see it, if a knife is capable of performing in a "long haul" survival situation, it will suit in a "temporary problem" sort of situation. ease of sharpening seems mandatory. so does secure carry. so do tasks such as batoning.

[catamount]

What are your thoughts on the Jumpmaster as a "survival" knife? Ease of sharpening might be an issue, but I'd think serrations would be a plus in a survival situation. I've got one (along with a Rock Salt and Temperance 2) in my bug-out bag.