Spyderco Forums

Did not know if anyone here goes to Boston a lot but in case you do this is just something to keep in mind....

16-45.1 Carrying of Weapons Prohibited.

No person, except as provided by law, shall carry on his person, or carry under his control in a vehicle, any knife having any type of blade in excess of two and one-half (2½ ) inches, ice picks, dirks or similar weapons that are likely to penetrate through police officer's ballistic vests, or other object or tool so redesigned, fashioned, prepared or treated that the same may be used to inflict bodily harm or injury to another, except:

a. When actually engaged in hunting or fishing or any employment, trade or lawful recreational or culinary activity which customarily involves the carrying or use of any type of knife, or

b. In going directly to and/or returning directly from such activities, or

c. If the knife is being transported directly to or from a place of purchase, sharpening, or repair, and if packaged in such a manner as not to allow easy access to the knife while it is being transported.

No person, except as provided by law, shall carry on his person, or carry under his control in a vehicle, a machete. For purposes of this section, "machete" means a heavy knife at least eighteen (18) inches in length and having a blade at least one and one-half (1.5) inches wide at its broadest measurement. This subsection shall not apply to carrying a machete on one's person or in a vehicle if the machete is carried for the purpose of cutting vegetation or if the machete is being transported for the purpose of cutting vegetation.

(Ord. 2001 c. 10; Ord. 2008 c. 13 § 1) Penalty, see subsection 16-45.4
16-45.2 Distribution Exception.

This section shall not apply to persons who, through entities or establishments engaged in a recognized retail or wholesale business, are involved in the sale, purchase or repair of machetes or knives for trade, sport, hobby or recreation, including without limitation persons engaged in the transportation to or from such entities or establishments.

(Ord. 2001 c. 10; Ord. 2008 c. 13 § 2)
16-45.3 Applicability.

Nothing in this section shall be construed to enhance or diminish any duties of persons described in subsection 16-45.2, and this section shall not be introduced or cited in any proceeding as evidence of negligence, recklessness, or similar state of mind of such persons.

(Ord. 2001 c. 10)
16-45.4 Penalty.

Violators of any provision of this section shall be subject to a fine of not more than three hundred ($300.00) dollars for each offense.

(Ord. 2001 c. 10)
16-45.5 Severability.

The provisions of this section shall be severable and if any section, part, or portion hereof shall be held invalid for any purpose by any court of competent jurisdiction, the decision of such court shall not affect or impair any remaining section, part or portion thereof.
(Ord. 2001 c. 10)

I remember Carlos talking about this quite a while ago. The salsa was new (and the correct size) back then.
Today there are many options. I'd probably carry my patriotic kopa or a DKPK.
Chris

Well I guess if/ when I get around to visiting boston I'll take my MeerKat rather then my Tenacious.

Boston...

Boston sucks!

But I will abide by the local laws if I get to train in MIT or Harvard :D

Boston's nearby, right?

i remember sal or someone from spyderco mentioned they were going to be making a knife specifically to meet boston's laws. i think that is what the cat is.

I have aspirations to visit the Sam Adams factory when I turn 21, so I'll need to adjust my carry next august.

Thats about the only reason I could think of to return. :p

Funny, lots of U.S. history there........
Too bad it sounds like a non "US" place today....... :eek:

I'm excited to visit there, I am a history major, so I wanna see the historic stuff as well.

Farmer Brown wrote:But I will abide by the local laws if I get to train in MIT or Harvard :D

If there's anyplace worse than Boston with regards to self-defense it's the People's Republic of Cambridge (the home of MIT and Harvard University.) I suggest checking the local laws before carrying there. (Hmmm, I think I won't be carrying my E4 or Para into town anymore.)

The irony is that the crazies in Harvard Square make it more dangerous than Boston. About ten years ago, a psycho teenage girl attacked four of us with an long edged weapon after she almost hit us with her car while we were in a crosswalk near Harvard Square. She chased us down and stabbed one of us, a former LEO, in the head. Fortunately and thankfully, he survived and eventually fully recovered. After her arrest, she was deemed a "threat to society" in a special hearing and was denied a bail hearing. (An LEO remarked that murder suspects usually still get a bail hearing - she was really crazy!) The twisted part is the four of us had to get lawyers to defend ourselves from an assault complaint she filed. It actually took seven years to fully close all the legal cases that resulted from this incident!

Needless to say, we haven't been back to Harvard Square since then.

Sometimes time-distance-cover is not enough...

Regards,
Ira

iwolf81 wrote:she was really crazy!

Ira, IMO you HAVE to be CRAZY to live in Boston. Been there MANY times (used to live in NH). No offense to those who reside in Bean Town. It's a cool visit but live there.....??

Sorry to hear of your legal embroilment. Our judicial system seems to excel at making criminals of victims and vis versa.

Ken

They sound perfectly sensible to me:

a. When actually engaged in hunting or fishing or any employment, trade or lawful recreational or culinary activity which customarily involves the carrying or use of any type of knife...

I use my EDCs solely for "employment, trade and lawful recreation or culinary activity which customarily involves the carrying or use of any type of knife"

What do y'all use yours for if not the above? Check the "what have you cut today thread" recently posted - all those activities are perfectly acceptable in Boston too surely!

Speaking of the US history there.. Im an Australian, recently visited Marble Bay area up that way... the cab driver on the way up gave me a US history lesson.. pointing the boats in the harbour and talking of the delaware crossing as though he saw it firsthand... then... cab ride on the way back, different cabbie, gave me the exact same story. Felt 200 years old out there!

Is Boston THAT ******??? We went there for our honeymoon, actually Cambridge I think, but visited Boston, went to Cape Cod, took the ferry to Marthas Vineyard, rented a harley for the day...we loved it there....although hahaha just thinking about it, on our very first MINUTE in Boston, we got out of the taxi, and I remember some guy covered in blood walking towards us crossing the street to a waiting ambulance who was obviously in the area looking for this nutbar...I had to get some hand sanitizer from the paramedic because a drop of blood may have grazed one of us...

I love the buildings, etc there...and the houses in Cape Cod etc are awesome.

patrickbateman wrote:Is Boston THAT sh!tty???

NO, IT'S NOT!

Boston is a GREAT town with lots of things to do. I spent many days, nights and dollars enjoying the town all my life (until I had a baby :-) Harvard Sq is no more whacked than the Village in NYC, and I used to enjoy visiting there many times as well (again, pre-baby.) As with any city, one needs to be aware of their surroundings at all times and mind their own business. That night ten years ago, we didn't heed this rule.

As an aside, if you want to get an idea of what Boston used to be like in the 70's, watch "The Friends of Eddie Coyle" (Criterion Edition) with Robert Mitchum and Peter Boyle. The Boston accent is dead-on!

Working back to knife (and gun) laws and self-defense, understanding the local laws and *avoiding* bad situations is the best defense for legal and safety predicaments. (That's what the SIGARMS Academy pounded in to our heads in every course I took.)

I appreciate very much the original post about the maximum legal blade length. I wasn't aware of it before.

So, please come visit Boston and the rest of the state, but don't be too surprised if you find our attitudes differ from the rest of the country... for better or worse.

Regards,
Ira

iwolf81 wrote:NO, IT'S NOT! Boston is a GREAT town with lots of things to do.

Ira, I agree with you 100%. I've always LOVED visiting Boston (and all the surrounding areas as well). There is so much history there. It really is quite unique. A couple years ago I took the wife out to Nantucket and P'town (it was her first time in the region). We swung through B on our way up to Acadia but didn't allow time for visiting. We should have and will one day, I'm sure.

That said, I would NOT want to LIVE there. It just isn't my cup of tea. I prefer a slower pace where I don't HAVE to be quite so vigilant. Yes, I know, there is crime and you will find crazies anywhere but I like the feeling I get living in a place of lower "activity". Some place where you can 'see them coming' if you will.

I used to like cities more. When I was younger. Now my ideal would be a beach front home, somewhere like Northern CA or Oregon. That said, my little suburb in NE Ohio is just fine and I'll likely live here for the duration.

iwolf81 wrote:As with any city, one needs to be aware of their surroundings at all times and mind their own business.

Kinda my point. Well said.

Ken

No person, except as provided by law, shall...

It'd be interesting to know what the scope and application of the text in red is above, as far as the cited municipal code goes.

JNewell wrote:It'd be interesting to know what the scope and application of the text in red is above, as far as the cited municipal code goes.

The exceptions to the first occurrence of that text are spelled out fairly clearly:

except:

a. When actually engaged in hunting or fishing or any employment, trade or lawful recreational or culinary activity which customarily involves the carrying or use of any type of knife, or

b. In going directly to and/or returning directly from such activities, or

c. If the knife is being transported directly to or from a place of purchase, sharpening, or repair, and if packaged in such a manner as not to allow easy access to the knife while it is being transported.

The exceptions to the sub-section dealing with machetes are perhaps a little less obvious since they're included in the paragraph rather than enumerated separately, but they're stll fairly straightforward:

This subsection shall not apply to carrying a machete on one's person or in a vehicle if the machete is carried for the purpose of cutting vegetation or if the machete is being transported for the purpose of cutting vegetation.

There was also an exception added for dealers, probably at a later date:

(Ord. 2001 c. 10; Ord. 2008 c. 13 § 1) Penalty, see subsection 16-45.4
16-45.2 Distribution Exception.

This section shall not apply to persons who, through entities or establishments engaged in a recognized retail or wholesale business, are involved in the sale, purchase or repair of machetes or knives for trade, sport, hobby or recreation, including without limitation persons engaged in the transportation to or from such entities or establishments.

IMHO, as knife laws go it's about as unambiguous as one can get without taking the "zero tolerance" cop-out. Not saying it's reasonable, only that it's reasonably clear.

Paul, I'm not sure that's so clear, but that's not legal advice. :D I think that phrase could well refer either to exceptions provided in other parts of the Boston municipal code or to exceptions in Commonwealth law that would preempt this prohibition.

feeny wrote:What do y'all use yours for if not the above? Check the "what have you cut today thread" recently posted - all those activities are perfectly acceptable in Boston too surely!

self defense..

I didnt see anyone post on the "what have you cut today" a response saying: "another human being" !

These laws are very similar to the Australian laws - here we dont have a size limit though - one can carry any sized blade for any lawful purpose - heck a chainsaw if you want.

I use whatever I am EDCing for 100s of things regularly in my trade, employment and various recreational activities

I pray that I never ever need to find out what may happen should I ever be in a self defense situation and with an EDC on me at the time.

The purpose of having the tool on me in the first place though is not for SD - that, in my country [and by the sounds of things, in Boston too], is unlawful.

Our laws here are also specific about where the knife is carried- they are much harsher if a knife is carried into a licensed alcohol venue for example. Now if in my job Im opening boxes all the time and I go to the local bar for lunch with a box cutter in my back pocket - that may be a lawful reason for having it - however, if I went to the same bar in the middle of the night, whilst not working, and having a few drinks, carrying my box cutter, that may be deemed unlawful.

I don't mind laws like this too much, it's enforcement that will make it a bad or good thing. (And I know I'm going to take some heat for this one but: if I can't come up with a good reason to carry a millie... maybe I shouldn't carry one...)

What strikes me as funny is that is code could be read as "so long as the knife is less than 2.5", you can carry it whenever you like." I know that you wouldn't be able to use the municipal code in that way in a courtroom, but it's an example of the backward way a criminal justice system works: rather than setting out a standard of reasonable behaviour, it only tells you which things specifically you can't do--and when they get tired of trying to figure out all of the specifics, the laws turn into generalities. (Like "don't carry knives" and "never exceed the posted limit" and "no open flame in this apartment.")