MT04P – ZDP-189 Mule Update

[TazKristi]

As most everyone knows, the Mule Team project was created to give more people access to various steels using a standard pattern for a fixed blade knife. The hope of the project was to find out what these steels can do by making them available at an affordable price for our Knife Knuts and Steel Junkies. We test our products constantly, but we’ve always maintained that no amount of “testing” can provide the information that real-world use can.

With the ZDP-189 Mule our goal was to reach the optimal hardness that we have presently in our folders. It appears that the optimal hardness is different for a fixed blade. We are in the process now of testing the Rc on every MT04P remaining on our shelves. We anticipate some will be over, under or right at the threshold. Anything over the threshold will be held back. We’ve removed the MT04P from our site until the testing is complete and we can adjust the available quantity. This particular run was more than 600 pieces, each Mule Team could be a different quantity based upon the minimums required to obtain specific steels.

For those of you, who have experienced the issues of fractures, breaks, etc. with your MT04P, please contact our W&R Department and we will replace yours with one that has an acceptable Rc. W&R can be reached via e-mail at customerservice@spyderco.com.

The thread that was started by yuraelektra is welcomed feedback. Feedback is one of the primary reasons for doing the Mule Team. It is through all of us sharing information that we will all learn more about these steels (performance, limitations, etc.). Thank you yuraelektra and everyone else who participated in the thread; we’d love to hear more feedback about the steels we’re using in this project.

Kristi

[Scottie3000]

Thanks for the info and for standing behind your product! What is the Rc rating of the second batch?

[ChapmanPreferred]

I love Spyderco! Well done, Sal, Kristi, and the whole crew!

[dsmegst]

Well, I hope this silences any complaints about folks being afraid to put the ZDP mule through it's paces. Thanks for going the extra mile for us.

[yuraelektra]

Thank you for the information! I to respect your decision. I think that differentiates a good manufacturer is the ability to recognize and solve problems. I hope that you understand the reason for my posts. I did not want to defame my favorite Knife manufacturer, I would like to voice and resolve the problem! I thank all participants of the forum, which took part in the discussion of this issue. Special thanks Mr.Glesser and TazKristi.
We are all very fond of Spyderco!

[Mr.Sparkitle]

Once again as a company you guys impress amazingly. Any idea of what you are going to do with knives too high for the threshold for RC? I would personally love a super hard ZDP mule, even if it is going to eventually break.

[stonetone]

Very honorable and classy!

I understood from the get-go that Mules are quasi-experimental pieces, and further that the ZDP Mule might be even more so due to the steel's unprecedented (?) composition. So I sort of approached it as a novelty, to be honest.

All well and good — except I was leery of actually using it. Not because of any fears of breakage, those came later. Initially, my reluctance was caused by the trouble I had sharpening my ZDP Delica, even though that was clearly due to my own inexperience. But at the time, I thought it best to leave the Mule's factory edge intact.

All things considered, my interpretation of this announcement is that maybe my Mule doesn't need to stay in its box anymore, and that's really, really cool.

[Cheygriz]

Thanks, Taz! :)

Just out of curiosity, what is your "target" Rc hardness for both the MT-04 and the ZDP folders??? :confused:

[Farmer Brown]

Wow. That IS class.

Almost unheard of nowadays.

[The Mastiff]

Kristi, I'll be glad to buy mules ( as I can afford) that test out at RC67. If it breaks on me that's my problem. Please don't destroy these wonderful blades when there are people that will buy them as is, and feel fortunate being able to do so. Thanks. Joe

[VashHash]

Aww man i was just about to buy a ZDP mule too

[JLS]

Kristi, are you able to tell us what the acceptable threshold is?

As with Joe, I'd be interested in a "too hard" reject. For someone who understands what they're dealing with, it would be incredible.

[MCM]

Thanks,
I have a pair of the 1st ones out!
May be a while till I get scales on them.
Will let you know how it goes.
(May be 2010 or .......)

[Joshua J.]

Mastiff is only taking the 67Rc knives, I want the ones that test at 68Rc!
Or anything above normal.

Knives tested individually for hardness, ohh this is gonna be good.

[Jay_Ev]

Thanks, Spyderco :) Please let us know when the Mules will be available again, I would love to purchase one!

[whkento]

Well, there's no denying that Taz, Sal, Gail, and everyone else at Spyderco are the best of the best. Well done, guys. :)

I still want to buy a ZDP mule. I was gonna try to get one after the Seki city festival, provided I have money left over. Please let us know when they're available again.

[Doc Pyres]

Phew! I thought I'd missed the boat. Thanks for the update, Kristi, and thanks to Spyderco for once again being such an excellent company. :) :) :)

[hijjt]

I am really glad to hear that, I was really skeptical of that steel in a large un-laminated knife especially with the stories of breakage. I am definitely in for one.

[gunmike1]

Kristi, I'll be glad to buy mules ( as I can afford) that test out at RC67. If it breaks on me that's my problem. Please don't destroy these wonderful blades when there are people that will buy them as is, and feel fortunate being able to do so. Thanks. Joe

I am 100% with you on this one Joe. I would gladly buy the harder ones and if it breaks that is on me. I really would like to use ZDP at very high hardness and don't mind taking the chance of breakage. I will just cord wrap any other ZDP Mule I got if I could get a high hardness one (my other one is at Tom Krein's shop with the handles just about done). Testing out ZDP at the extreme of hardness really is an exciting prospect and something I think the Mule Team project is perfect for. I'll report out the hardness of my current Mule after getting it back and getting it tested, but a 67 RC sample would be a lot of fun to test out on pure cutting.

Mike

[gunmike1]

Kristi, are you able to tell us what the acceptable threshold is?

As with Joe, I'd be interested in a "too hard" reject. For someone who understands what they're dealing with, it would be incredible.

My Stretch 2 is 64.5, and I think Spyderco goes for 64-65 on it's folders. I'm guessing anything over 65 might be a reject, but I am only speculating.

Mike