Spyderco Mule ZDP-189: problem

[The Mastiff]

We wonder what do the owners of knives that are not yet broken. Pray and not to breathe on them? Put on the shelf and not touch?

This is really getting quite silly. I bought mine when they first came out. I have both used mine, and even now tried to break it with the same force I could break a pencil with. ( I can break a pencil easily with my thumb and finger, except for Arnon's pencil that is.). So far no trouble with any part of the ZDP mule. It's one of my favorite knives, and slices wonderfully. I love the thing! :)

[The Mastiff]

To be honest, we think that Spyderco is not guilty. We think that to blame the Japanese contractor. should just admit it and try to resolve the issue so that all were satisfied.

As I stated earlier, e-mailing spyderco W&R is faster than complaining to us about your knives.

[yuraelektra]

As I stated earlier, e-mailing spyderco W&R is faster than complaining to us about your knives.

Thank you, you are a true friend! :D :D :D

[The Mastiff]

You know I wasn't being sarcastic, right? Have you contacted them? They are the ones that decide if replacement is warranted, not us.

[yuraelektra]

You know I wasn't being sarcastic, right? Have you contacted them? They are the ones that decide if replacement is warranted, not us.

Sir,
we turned to the Spyderco forum to discuss the issue with a knife Spyderco. Various aspects of this problem: steel, heat treatment and many other things. We asked here not to aid in the replacement of two knives! Why we turned to this forum? :) Because we would have seemed strange to discuss knives Spyderco on forum lovers butterflies or flowers :D .

[demtek9]

posted this in the wrong thread

[The Deacon]

Sir,
we turned to the Spyderco forum to discuss the issue with a knife Spyderco. Various aspects of this problem: steel, heat treatment and many other things. We asked here not to aid in the replacement of two knives! Why we turned to this forum? :) Because we would have seemed strange to discuss knives Spyderco on forum lovers butterflies or flowers :D .

Yet you still seem unable to accept the conclusion by one of our most knowledgeable members where steel is concerned that the "problem" your friends experienced was most probably the result of mishandling a knife made of relatively brittle steel which was, at the express request of some of the "steel junkies" here, pushed to a higher hardness than is used on Spyderco's normal production folders.

[yuraelektra]

Yet you still seem unable to accept the conclusion by one of our most knowledgeable members where steel is concerned that the "problem" your friends experienced was most probably the result of mishandling a knife made of relatively brittle steel which was, at the express request of some of the "steel junkies" here, pushed to a higher hardness than is used on Spyderco's normal production folders.

Yes, we can not agree with this statement. The fifth time I have to write that the knives are not used. Knives broke from the application to the blade low side load hands. We do not rule out the possibility that not all the knives from the party have a problem. We believe that a violation of the process of heat treatment of individual specimens. We - the fans Spyderco, do not want to check our assumptions on our not broken knives. Therefore, we turned to this forum exchange views Unfortunately, we saw this little constructive posts, and absolutely do not see any reaction manufacturer of knives. Pity ...

[demtek9]

I think that your only option is to send the two blades into Spyderco...I know that is not cheap from Russia, but if you want a response from them, then they will most likely need to see the product you feel is defective. They may say its over hardened or not. The only way to know is to spend that cash to send it in.

If I had a Russian knife that failed, I'd have to do the same thing and ship it overseas. I feel your pain, as I just spent $30.00 sending a knife to Germany. Good luck with all your future knives.

[yuraelektra]

I think that your only option is to send the two blades into Spyderco...I know that is not cheap from Russia, but if you want a response from them, then they will most likely need to see the product you feel is defective. They may say its over hardened or not. The only way to know is to spend that cash to send it in.

If I had a Russian knife that failed, I'd have to do the same thing and ship it overseas. I feel your pain, as I just spent $30.00 sending a knife to Germany. Good luck with all your future knives.

I sincerely thank you, sir!
I think that in the near future knives will be sent.

[The Deacon]

Yes, we can not agree with this statement. The fifth time I have to write that the knives are not used. Knives broke from the application to the blade low side load hands. We do not rule out the possibility that not all the knives from the party have a problem. We believe that a violation of the process of heat treatment of individual specimens. We - the fans Spyderco, do not want to check our assumptions on our not broken knives. Therefore, we turned to this forum exchange views Unfortunately, we saw this little constructive posts, and absolutely do not see any reaction manufacturer of knives. Pity ...

Generally speaking, if a customer wants a response from a manufacturer regarding a problem, contacting customer service is the best way for them to obtain one. Even on a forum, it is best if the person actually experiencing the issue posts, rather than having a third party do so for them. As for Sal's reaction to the breakage of ZDP Mules, I would ask if you followed the link I posted very early in this thread.

[JNewell]

Unfortunately we seem to be generating more heat than light right now :D though probably not enough to anneal a blade. Whatever else is true here, it's been useful to learn about the higher hardness of the ZDP Mules.

Has anyone checked the hardness of the others in the series? I can tell you from reworking the tang holes on my 52100 Mule that it is verrrrrrrrry hard indeed, though I have no idea what the actual number might be.

[The Mastiff]

You say this. Note I keep seeing "we":

Sir,
we turned to the Spyderco forum to discuss the issue with a knife Spyderco. Various aspects of this problem: steel, heat treatment and many other things. We asked here not to aid in the replacement of two knives! Why we turned to this forum? Because we would have seemed strange to discuss knives Spyderco on forum lovers butterflies or flower

Ok, you ( as in "we") aren't trying to get spyderco to replace them. I can't help but thinking about this statement that you made asking for replacement:

yuraelektra yuraelektra is offline
Spyderco Forum Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Russia
Posts: 18
At the request of my Spydie-comrades spread the fruit of collective wisdom.


Dear Mr. Glesser and all Spyderco collectors!

We just want to explain some moments about ZDP Mule Team, please try to understand us:
we haven’t cut ANYTHING with broken Mules! We haven’t use them as an axe. WE HAVEN’T USED THEM AT ALL. We are big fans of Spyderco and we want to be honest with you. Those two knives were fragile as glass. And its lucky for us that we haven’t tried to use them because we think its rather dangerous to use such fragile knives. We’ve read about your experiments with ZDP heat treating. Its very useful in knife making no doubt. But we suppose our broken blades have too much hardness for ZDP. Anyway Spyderco says that: «each run will have the same thickness, grind, edge, and WILL BE HEAT TRЕАTED TO THE OPTIMAL HARDNESS FOR THAT STEEL». We think our Mules have wrong heat treatment, its not optimal for ZDP if someone can easily break it as a piece of glass. We have used ZDP for quite a long time in Russia so we know all its features, we know its not for hard use. Please don’t think of us inexperienced. Our Spyderco forum includes thousands of fans, many of them are professional metallurgists and custom knife makers. Its very easy to check our Mules, Mr. Glesser, just let us send them to Spyderco. And if the knives have wrong heat treatment could you tell please is it possible to change our broken knives? And what about other Mules that we’ve bought which haven’t broken yet but have the same defects, is it possible to change them either?

THANK YOU!
SINCERELY, RUSSIAN SPYDERCO FANS!

[/QUOTE]

Can you understand why I keep telling you to write the warranty & Repair section now? You yourself talked about wanting to replace them despite your later denial.

[yuraelektra]

You say this. Note I keep seeing "we":



Ok, you ( as in "we") aren't trying to get spyderco to replace them. I can't help but thinking about this statement that you made asking for replacement:

Once again, thank you for your position.
Great demagogy and manipulation of words out of context :) .
I write "we" because it expresses not only my opinion.
I do not speak English(almost :) ). I admit that not all sentences are correct and are available for your understanding, I use the Google translator.

[The Mastiff]

I'll say it again.

Can you understand why I keep telling you to write the warranty & Repair section now? You yourself talked about wanting to replace them despite your later denial.

Your english is fine BTW.

[Marion David Poff]

I am glad to that this was posted here.

Our friend from Russia wanted to express his experience and opinion, and hear our opinions and experineces. Some of the Forum regulars have expressed their experience and opinion. And I got to learn some things. Good Day Had By All.

I would love to hear if anyone else has experienced any other anomalies or un-expected results with their ZDP-189 Mule?

I received mine, and it is sharp as all get out. I cord-wrapped it twice (tried one, did not like it, went with another). While I was wrapping it, I had it clamped to a table for safety, and I had no issues with breakage.

I have noticed that the taper of the blade is a bit steeper than the three other Mules I have.

But, I would tend to agree with the Forum crowd, that an exotic alloy knife hardened to 67 HRC should be treated with some care similar to the way you might be careful with a knife made of glass or ceramic, as opposed to the lack of care that you could get away with from a knife made of "tough as the hubs of ****" spring steel.

Alternately, I would also like to know the exact mechanism of failure that was experienced.

Lastly, having made a knife or two, I can say that I know the kind of forces that can be generated by working on a knife, even just applying a handle, and they canbe greater than trivial.

[TooSharp]

Once I get mine back from Tom Krein, I will be putting it through its paces. I Plan to use it for a hunting/camp knife. We'll see what kind of punishment the Mule can take.

[Fred S]

well, I tried to break a file by hand today, I couldn't do it with hands alone, but I felt like i could have broken it over my knee. Anyhow it was ~ 3/16 thick and maybe 1" wide. No way "Pencil breaking" force would bust the file I have

[The Mastiff]

No way "Pencil breaking" force would bust the file I have

It didn't break my mule either.

[MCM]

Have never even thought about this here.... Or read it.....
Hate to even mention it..........




Troll?


If not.......

"I have a question about a warranty issue"
http://spyderco.com/contact/contact.php

And let us know how it goes.

Till then..... Give us a break...... Pun intended........