Sharpening Question On My Vg10 Blades

[MANIXWORLD]

how do i get a nice smooth shaving sharp edge on my VG10 blades,specially on my Caly3 plain edge,which gets sharp,but toothy on the edge.
I want to get a smooth shavingsharp edge on them.
i use a diamondstone,which feels quite smooth on the surface,and Lansky ceramicrods,which are real smooth,but i still tend to get a tooth edge on the Caly3,even with light pressure whilst sharpening.
i know the Spyderco sharpmaker is probably the perfect answer,but il have to wait a while before i get mine/cantwait.
any experience on the subject?

[Billy]

I can only add what you already know, which is get a Sharpmaker with the UF rods. That and a charged leather strop will get your VG-10 blades well beyond "scary sharp".

Other than that, I have nothing to add. :rolleyes: :p

[cobrajoe]

from my experience, diamond stones leave a really rough edge. This edge would be great for stuff like slicing rope, but not so much for shaving.

To get a really fine edge, you need really fine stones. I have the profile stones (brown and white), and a flat ultrafine stone. The brown is coarse enough to bring an edge back from as far as I let it go, but the fine white or ultrafine are the two I usually go to for sharpening. On my EDC, usually a couple swipes after a week of work bring it back to my level of sharpness (not quite to factory levels though).

I would suggest getting a ceramic sharpener from spyderco, they do a much better job than any other type of sharpener I've used (even better than the lansky ceramic sharpener). if you get both a brown and a white stone, you'll probably not need anything else, though a strop can make an even more polished edge, but it takes much more practice to get it right.

[Cliff Stamp]

Is the edge off of the diamond stone shaving sharp?

-Cliff

[MANIXWORLD]

Is the edge off of the diamond stone shaving sharp?

-Cliff

No,i still get a sort of rough sharp edge,even though the diamondstone feels real smooth,from lots of use. just not shavingsharp.
i guess the diamondstone would be great to put an edge back on,after a blade has gone real blunt.

[ngohari]

Woah! Do NOT use a diamond sharpener to re-sharpen your blade! Diamond stones are for reshaping blades or sharpening low quality steels. The ceramic rods seem like a better choice but the grits need to be starting at 1000. The diamond stone is too coarse to sharpen a blade to be a fine edge. In fact, you would do more damage to the knife. I know it sounds bad but it is the right decision when I say that you want to wait for the Sharpmaker or get Japanese water stones that are 1000+ grit. The Spyderco medium stone actually is the equivalent to a fine Japanese water stone that is 1000 grit, they go all the way up to 12000 grits.

[Left Hand Path]

Hi MANIXWORLD-
One thing that helped me a lot was a suggestion from Cliff. I was jumping from a coarse DMT diamond stone to the Spyderco ceramics, and ending up with a toothier edge. I started using an intermediate diamond stone - a DMT Fine and sometimes Extra-Fine - and the jump between grits was reduced. This resulted in a much better polished edge, especially with fancier higher carbide steels.

[Jeff Tanner]

I use natural stones for a nice polished edge, usually a medium Arkansas followed up with a surgical black stone. Sometimes I will strop, but normally the edge is smooth enough off the black stone that I often don't bother fussing around any further.

It seems to me that good naturally quarried stones polish the edges very smoothly. I never had much truck with the diamond stuff...feels like you are just ripping the steel off the blade.

[MANIXWORLD]

I use natural stones for a nice polished edge, usually a medium Arkansas followed up with a surgical black stone. Sometimes I will strop, but normally the edge is smooth enough off the black stone that I often don't bother fussing around any further.

It seems to me that good naturally quarried stones polish the edges very smoothly. I never had much truck with the diamond stuff...feels like you are just ripping the steel off the blade.

I will cancel the diamondstone,and rather stick with the ceramics that are superfine.
luckilly i haven't destroyed any of the only 2 Spydies,i sharpened on the diamondstone.As for the rest of my collection of Spydies,they haven't touched any diamondstones.
i would like to get more clued up on the Spyderco ceramics.im looking for something thats portable and liteweight,because im always on the move.

[Cliff Stamp]

I will cancel the diamondstone,and rather stick with the ceramics that are superfine.

If you actually use your knives, this really isn't a functional approach because superfine ceramics on a used knife do nothing but deform the edge, acting essentially as a smooth steel and give you an edge which has a much lower edge retention than the initial edge.

As for some other points raise, you can't "destroy" a knife with a sharpening stone because of the grit, and diamond abrasives actually come in grits finer than the standard Sharpmaker rods, so if they are not for sharpening then neither is the Sharpmaker.

The reason I asked about if the edge was shaving sharp is simply that if it is not then there is a technique issue, it has nothing to do with the stone. You can take a $1 hardware store stone and sharpen even steels like CPM-S30V to a shaving sharp edge, easily capable of push cutting paper, and yes, even on the coarse side of the stone.

-Cliff

[MANIXWORLD]

If you actually use your knives, this really isn't a functional approach because superfine ceramics on a used knife do nothing but deform the edge, acting essentially as a smooth steel and give you an edge which has a much lower edge retention than the initial edge.

As for some other points raise, you can't "destroy" a knife with a sharpening stone because of the grit, and diamond abrasives actually come in grits finer than the standard Sharpmaker rods, so if they are not for sharpening then neither is the Sharpmaker.

The reason I asked about if the edge was shaving sharp is simply that if it is not then there is a technique issue, it has nothing to do with the stone. You can take a $1 hardware store stone and sharpen even steels like CPM-S30V to a shaving sharp edge, easily capable of push cutting paper, and yes, even on the coarse side of the stone.

-Cliff

Thanx much,for the info Cliff.
i need to up my knowledge on sharpening skills.
i would like to do it like the pro's,but with practice comes perfection.

[Cliff Stamp]

Buy yourself a way to inspect the edge under at least 10-20x magnification, this takes all the guess work out of the process. Once you can actually see what you are doing it takes very little time to refine your skills. If the edge is not sharp it is simply either because

A) You are not actually sharpening it but simply hitting the shoulder

B) There is a heavy burr on the edge

The solution to A is to regrind the edge or increase sharpening angle, for B it can be many things but usually

1) Clean the stones
2) Grind the edge of the knife right off
3) Hone with minimal pressure required as you approach the actual edge
4) Micro-bevel with alternating passes and very little parallel travel

-Cliff

[Bolster]

4) Micro-bevel with alternating passes and very little parallel travel

I don't understand that one, Cliff...could you please explain?

[quattrokid73]

I can get my Caly 3 VG-10 PE shaving sharp on the sharpmaker with just the tips on the fine rods. It takes about 60 light passes to do this. I'm always amazed at how easy it is to get my knife this sharp on the sharpmaker. I see no need for using the flats or getting ultra fine stones. The edge proves to be durable as well.

Might I add:

I've noticed that each of my knives requires a different setting on the sharpmaker to get a shaving edge.

Caly 3 works on 30* I use 40* on the Para, Cricket, and probably D4. The Spin gets shaving sharp on 30* also.

[Cliff Stamp]

I spent some time sharpening some very soft AUS blades from CRK&T and they were especially troubling. I found that with minimal effort a significant burr could be created. I would strongly recommend that anyone interested in sharpening should buy some AUS-4 blades because if you can sharpen them (they are typically unherhardenened, inherently it is a fine steel) you can sharpen anything.

Basically, once the edge has been sharpened on the shaping stone, then the finer stones should only require 1-4 passes per side to finish the honing. If you are ever using more strokes than that, you are not actually sharpening anyway, you are either shaping or you are deforming. I also found that the micro-bevel stokes should be minimal in travel.

Just consider, if you take one long pass down a 12" stone, it is just the same as taking three passes per side on a 4" stone. I found that if you do really short passes so that each section of the blade only saw maybe an inch or so of stone per stroke, I could still get a really crisp edge even on those steels.

-Cliff

[MANIXWORLD]

I spent some time sharpening some very soft AUS blades from CRK&T and they were especially troubling. I found that with minimal effort a significant burr could be created. I would strongly recommend that anyone interested in sharpening should buy some AUS-4 blades because if you can sharpen them (they are typically unherhardenened, inherently it is a fine steel) you can sharpen anything.

Basically, once the edge has been sharpened on the shaping stone, then the finer stones should only require 1-4 passes per side to finish the honing. If you are ever using more strokes than that, you are not actually sharpening anyway, you are either shaping or you are deforming. I also found that the micro-bevel stokes should be minimal in travel.

Just consider, if you take one long pass down a 12" stone, it is just the same as taking three passes per side on a 4" stone. I found that if you do really short passes so that each section of the blade only saw maybe an inch or so of stone per stroke, I could still get a really crisp edge even on those steels.

-Cliff

If you had to use these methods on ZDP bladesteels,it would probably take much longer,but once achieved,you probably have a blade that can split atoms. i dont have any ZDP blades,but i would love to try them out,and see what all the fuss is about.-thanx again Cliff,very useful info.

[Cliff Stamp]

I have blade steels which are to ZDP-189 what ZDP-189 is to AUS-4A, they do not take longer to sharpen, in fact if anything they are faster. If a steel is properly hardened then the amount of carbide will not significantly effect honing time with proper hone selection and use of micro-bevels. I can take one of my blades, cut up some carpet, use it to trim some weeds, do whatever needs to be done to the extent the edge is ground completely off, and in a couple of minutes it will be shaving again. Reset the edge with an x-coarse stone, refine with a medium grit, micro-bevel to finish.

-Cliff

[bladese97]

:spyder: :spyder: :cool: :spyder: :spyder:I can get my VG-10 blades sharp as ****, but I would love to know how to strope; Anyone have any tips, or multi-second lessons to offer :o :)

[Cliff Stamp]

I would recommend not stropping, properly honed edges will only be degraded by a strop not improved, Brent Beach studied this under 200X magnification some time ago. What a lot of people do is use stropping to make up for very slopping sharpening because since stropping is on a media which deforms there is great tolerance for angle slop. This however is not a way to produce optimal sharpness or edge retention.

-Cliff

[vivi]

Cliff, how do you feel about carefully stropping a well honed edge? I agree with the point about some using it to knock off a burr or otherwise cover up sloppy sharpening technique, but when used on a properly honed edge I've always had good results if my desired edge was polished.

Also do you have the Brent Beach data saved? I didn't find any mention of strops on his homepage last time I visited it.