Need to get something straight.
Need to get something straight.
Let me get this right. Unless I am military or law enforcement or fire-fighter... I cannot own an auto anywhere in the US? My states laws seem pretty lax on knives, this is why I'm confused... Is this a straight up federal, nationwide law?
"I ain't looking for confusion, but it tends to follow me."
E4 white, E4 waved SE, Caspian Salt, Crossbill, Mule, white Dragonfly, Boker CLB Desert Subcom, BM Blackwood mini Skirmish,
E4 white, E4 waved SE, Caspian Salt, Crossbill, Mule, white Dragonfly, Boker CLB Desert Subcom, BM Blackwood mini Skirmish,
Okay, so since you're based in Colorado, it is illegal to sell these to any other states unless the dealer is only selling to LEOs.
It would be pretty simple to work out a loophole here, If that ^ is the case... unless you guys are playing nice and simply complying. :)
PS- sorry if I'm still being ignorant, I read through as much as my ADD allowed and then I speedread.
It would be pretty simple to work out a loophole here, If that ^ is the case... unless you guys are playing nice and simply complying. :)
PS- sorry if I'm still being ignorant, I read through as much as my ADD allowed and then I speedread.
"I ain't looking for confusion, but it tends to follow me."
E4 white, E4 waved SE, Caspian Salt, Crossbill, Mule, white Dragonfly, Boker CLB Desert Subcom, BM Blackwood mini Skirmish,
E4 white, E4 waved SE, Caspian Salt, Crossbill, Mule, white Dragonfly, Boker CLB Desert Subcom, BM Blackwood mini Skirmish,
- Hannibal Lecter
- Member
- Posts: 2319
- Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2004 3:01 pm
- Location: Outer Banks, USA, Earth
Hmmm...
My Dear Friend,
I might mention that it is probably a bad idea to discuss potential attempted circumvention of the law on an open public forum, but what do I know... :rolleyes:
--------
Hannibal
Spyderco is not playing nice and simply complying. They are following both the letter and spirit of the existing laws and staying within their confines, thereby hopefully keeping both themselves and the occasional overzealous ELU out of trouble.Piercieve wrote:It would be pretty simple to work out a loophole here, If that ^ is the case... unless you guys are playing nice and simply complying. :)
I might mention that it is probably a bad idea to discuss potential attempted circumvention of the law on an open public forum, but what do I know... :rolleyes:
--------
Hannibal
---------------------
"I have followed with enthusiasm the course of your disgrace and public shaming. My own never bothered me except for the inconvenience of being incarcerated, but you may lack perspective."
"I have followed with enthusiasm the course of your disgrace and public shaming. My own never bothered me except for the inconvenience of being incarcerated, but you may lack perspective."
- The Deacon
- Member
- Posts: 25717
- Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 10:33 am
- Location: Upstate SC, USA
- Contact:
The Federal law concerning automatic knives were passed in the mid 1950's. However, for the first 50 or so years that it was on the books, enforcement of it was the responsibility of an agency that took absolutely no interest in doing so. I suppose if a shipload of cheap automatics had run aground on a US beach, they "might" have taken some action, but don't think that ever happened.
That situation changed a couple years back, when enforcement became the responsibility of ICE. These folks appear, at least in certain parts of the country, to have made a decision to enforce, and in the case of balisongs to "creatively interpret", those laws.
Technically, where automatics are concerned, it has been against Federal law since the late 1950's to sell one to anyone execpt an LEO, active duty member of the armed forces, or one armed person, with the sole exception that, if "Company A" was located in "State X", and the laws of "State X" allowed private citizens to own automatic knives, then an automatic manufactured by "Company A" in "State X", could be sold to private citizens of "State X". While it's pretty obvious that has not been enforced yet against any company other than Spyderco, there is no guarantee that it will not be so enforced today or in the future.
There is also no guarantee that ICE will not decide to prosecute not only the seller, but the buyer. So, as the good doctor and others have pointed out before, discussions related to circumvention of the law could have serious negative consequences for the poster, for the dealer or individual he claims sold him the knife, and for Spyderco.
That situation changed a couple years back, when enforcement became the responsibility of ICE. These folks appear, at least in certain parts of the country, to have made a decision to enforce, and in the case of balisongs to "creatively interpret", those laws.
Technically, where automatics are concerned, it has been against Federal law since the late 1950's to sell one to anyone execpt an LEO, active duty member of the armed forces, or one armed person, with the sole exception that, if "Company A" was located in "State X", and the laws of "State X" allowed private citizens to own automatic knives, then an automatic manufactured by "Company A" in "State X", could be sold to private citizens of "State X". While it's pretty obvious that has not been enforced yet against any company other than Spyderco, there is no guarantee that it will not be so enforced today or in the future.
There is also no guarantee that ICE will not decide to prosecute not only the seller, but the buyer. So, as the good doctor and others have pointed out before, discussions related to circumvention of the law could have serious negative consequences for the poster, for the dealer or individual he claims sold him the knife, and for Spyderco.
Paul
My Personal Website ---- Beginners Guide to Spyderco Collecting ---- Spydiewiki
Deplorable :p
WTC # 1458 - 1504 - 1508 - Never Forget, Never Forgive!
My Personal Website ---- Beginners Guide to Spyderco Collecting ---- Spydiewiki
Deplorable :p
WTC # 1458 - 1504 - 1508 - Never Forget, Never Forgive!
- ClockWork
- Member
- Posts: 763
- Joined: Sat Mar 22, 2008 10:13 pm
- Location: Lonetree Colorado.... south of Mecca
I'm a NREMT-B... so i think that may put me in the "grey" area as far as autos.
But, From my little understanding, and probly misinterpreted reading of Colorado law...
As far as I understand (which is probly wrong I'm not a lawyer, so don't qoute me)
In Colorado a "Knife" isn't legally considered a "Knife" until the blade is 3.5 inches in length.
So.... with some deduction, you might be able to say "That a auto knife under 3.5 inches isn't really a auto knife, because really, its not even a 'knife' " ?
Also. From what I read (and probly misinterpreted)...
That its not Illegal to carry any knife, in your vehicle, in your home, or your personally owned business.
Now... This is most likely wrong, I'm not a lawyer or para-legal or have any other legal training other than 5th grade 3 Branches of government book learning :confused: :o
Since Spyderco is in out Great Centenial state.... maybe Taz or Raven will know more... and probly be more accurate about the interpretation.
But what I do know... is that Legal or not, you can pick up auto's and Bali's at any local gunshow.. and I know a couple of places that sells cheap crappy Bali's. (And it probably is Illegal... so don't go buying them, its not worth going and buying a crappy balisong if your might be violating the law... the crappy bali WILL break within 2 weeks anyway.)
-Clock
But, From my little understanding, and probly misinterpreted reading of Colorado law...
As far as I understand (which is probly wrong I'm not a lawyer, so don't qoute me)
In Colorado a "Knife" isn't legally considered a "Knife" until the blade is 3.5 inches in length.
So.... with some deduction, you might be able to say "That a auto knife under 3.5 inches isn't really a auto knife, because really, its not even a 'knife' " ?
Also. From what I read (and probly misinterpreted)...
That its not Illegal to carry any knife, in your vehicle, in your home, or your personally owned business.
Now... This is most likely wrong, I'm not a lawyer or para-legal or have any other legal training other than 5th grade 3 Branches of government book learning :confused: :o
Since Spyderco is in out Great Centenial state.... maybe Taz or Raven will know more... and probly be more accurate about the interpretation.
But what I do know... is that Legal or not, you can pick up auto's and Bali's at any local gunshow.. and I know a couple of places that sells cheap crappy Bali's. (And it probably is Illegal... so don't go buying them, its not worth going and buying a crappy balisong if your might be violating the law... the crappy bali WILL break within 2 weeks anyway.)
-Clock
:) Favorites: Black Paramil w/ D2 blade, PE Mini-Manix, S90v Military, Civilian, SE Dodo, PE Police, Sage
Vist my eBay store: Life and Liberty Gear
Tactical & MOLLE gear, Headgear and more
stores.ebay.com/Life-and-Liberty-Gear
Vist my eBay store: Life and Liberty Gear
Tactical & MOLLE gear, Headgear and more
stores.ebay.com/Life-and-Liberty-Gear
Unfortunately, being an EMT does not allow you to legally purchase/own said autos according to Federal law. I was unsure myself, but if you read the Federal laws regarding autos we are not included as any group that is allowed to own or purchase these types of knives. I'm hoping that someday someone will actually be able to give me a definitive answer one way or the other because at one time some dealers made these knives available to firefighters and medics as well.ClockWork wrote:I'm a NREMT-B... so i think that may put me in the "grey" area as far as autos
-Clock
Jason
Helloooo All, This Is Texas Penal Code..
PROHIBITED WEAPON, Meaning Unlawful to Own, Or Possess..
Hope this Helps
This is Federal law as well.. Check with "ATF"
(Alcohol-Tobacco-Firearms) laws concerning Automatic knifes.....
Definition of Switchblade:
(11) "Switchblade knife" means any knife that has a
blade that folds, closes, or retracts into the handle or sheath, and
that:
(A) opens automatically by pressure applied to a
button or other device located on the handle; or
(B) opens or releases a blade from the handle or
sheath by the force of gravity or by the application of centrifugal
force.
§ 46.05. PROHIBITED WEAPONS. (a) A person commits an
offense if he intentionally or knowingly possesses, manufactures,
transports, repairs, or sells:
(1) an explosive weapon;
(2) a machine gun;
(3) a short-barrel firearm;
(4) a firearm silencer;
(5) a switchblade knife;
(6) knuckles;
(7) armor-piercing ammunition;
(8) a chemical dispensing device; or
(9) a zip gun.
(b) It is a defense to prosecution under this section that
the actor's conduct was incidental to the performance of official
duty by the armed forces or national guard, a governmental law
enforcement agency, or a correctional facility.
(c) It is a defense to prosecution under this section that
the actor's possession was pursuant to registration pursuant to the
National Firearms Act, as amended.
(d) It is an affirmative defense to prosecution under this
section that the actor's conduct:
(1) was incidental to dealing with a switchblade
knife, springblade knife, or short-barrel firearm solely as an
antique or curio; or
(2) was incidental to dealing with armor-piercing
ammunition solely for the purpose of making the ammunition
available to an organization, agency, or institution listed in
Subsection (b).
(e) An offense under this section is a felony of the third
degree unless it is committed under Subsection (a)(5) or (a)(6), in
which event, it is a Class A misdemeanor.
(f) It is a defense to prosecution under this section for
the possession of a chemical dispensing device that the actor is a
security officer and has received training on the use of the
chemical dispensing device by a training program that is:
(1) provided by the Commission on Law Enforcement
Officer Standards and Education; or
(2) approved for the purposes described by this
subsection by the Texas Private Security Board of the Department of
Public Safety.
(g) In Subsection (f), "security officer" means a
commissioned security officer as defined by Section 1702.002,
Occupations Code, or a noncommissioned security officer registered
under Section 1702.221, Occupations Code.
PROHIBITED WEAPON, Meaning Unlawful to Own, Or Possess..
Hope this Helps
This is Federal law as well.. Check with "ATF"
(Alcohol-Tobacco-Firearms) laws concerning Automatic knifes.....
Definition of Switchblade:
(11) "Switchblade knife" means any knife that has a
blade that folds, closes, or retracts into the handle or sheath, and
that:
(A) opens automatically by pressure applied to a
button or other device located on the handle; or
(B) opens or releases a blade from the handle or
sheath by the force of gravity or by the application of centrifugal
force.
§ 46.05. PROHIBITED WEAPONS. (a) A person commits an
offense if he intentionally or knowingly possesses, manufactures,
transports, repairs, or sells:
(1) an explosive weapon;
(2) a machine gun;
(3) a short-barrel firearm;
(4) a firearm silencer;
(5) a switchblade knife;
(6) knuckles;
(7) armor-piercing ammunition;
(8) a chemical dispensing device; or
(9) a zip gun.
(b) It is a defense to prosecution under this section that
the actor's conduct was incidental to the performance of official
duty by the armed forces or national guard, a governmental law
enforcement agency, or a correctional facility.
(c) It is a defense to prosecution under this section that
the actor's possession was pursuant to registration pursuant to the
National Firearms Act, as amended.
(d) It is an affirmative defense to prosecution under this
section that the actor's conduct:
(1) was incidental to dealing with a switchblade
knife, springblade knife, or short-barrel firearm solely as an
antique or curio; or
(2) was incidental to dealing with armor-piercing
ammunition solely for the purpose of making the ammunition
available to an organization, agency, or institution listed in
Subsection (b).
(e) An offense under this section is a felony of the third
degree unless it is committed under Subsection (a)(5) or (a)(6), in
which event, it is a Class A misdemeanor.
(f) It is a defense to prosecution under this section for
the possession of a chemical dispensing device that the actor is a
security officer and has received training on the use of the
chemical dispensing device by a training program that is:
(1) provided by the Commission on Law Enforcement
Officer Standards and Education; or
(2) approved for the purposes described by this
subsection by the Texas Private Security Board of the Department of
Public Safety.
(g) In Subsection (f), "security officer" means a
commissioned security officer as defined by Section 1702.002,
Occupations Code, or a noncommissioned security officer registered
under Section 1702.221, Occupations Code.
funny how my state of employment dictates what i can carry and what i can not (im a marine)
my CCW permit will allow me to carry a loaded fire arm but cant carry a knife (leas an auto or ballie ) really i done care about autos and ballies/ butterfly knives are at the most fun to toy with
i dont need nor would i carry ether, but a small fly would be fun to play with at the house
:confused:
my CCW permit will allow me to carry a loaded fire arm but cant carry a knife (leas an auto or ballie ) really i done care about autos and ballies/ butterfly knives are at the most fun to toy with
i dont need nor would i carry ether, but a small fly would be fun to play with at the house
:confused:
Lloyd R Harner III (Butch)
a step forward
working my way to a licence to drill
http://www.harnerknives.com
a step forward
working my way to a licence to drill
http://www.harnerknives.com
that's the worst part about this whole thing. Sure there are some people who edc their balis, but for the most part (in my humble opinion of course)they are in demand for flipping/playing with. From what I hear/read they are far more sought after for their fun factor than for use as a weapon or tool.butch wrote: ballies/ butterfly knives are at the most fun to toy with
i dont need nor would i carry ether, but a small fly would be fun to play with at the house
:confused:
-Steph
-"How many of those spyder thingies do you really need? "-my girlfriend-
_ SERENITY NOW!!!!!- Frank Costanza
-"How many of those spyder thingies do you really need? "-my girlfriend-
_ SERENITY NOW!!!!!- Frank Costanza
- Lord vader
- Member
- Posts: 1599
- Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2008 3:24 pm
- Location: U.S.A.
My uncle gave me a butterfly knife when I was very young (l1960-61). I only had it for a year or so before it was stolen from me. I've never missed it and never got the urge to get another.stoneman wrote:that's the worst part about this whole thing. Sure there are some people who edc their balis, but for the most part (in my humble opinion of course)they are in demand for flipping/playing with. From what I hear/read they are far more sought after for their fun factor than for use as a weapon or tool.
If I did get one, it only be to play with it.
Lamarr
You are in luck! All you need to do is remove just one of your arms. JUST ONE! And you will be allowed to get one of these restricted models!Piercieve wrote:Let me get this right. Unless I am military or law enforcement or fire-fighter... I cannot own an auto anywhere in the US? My states laws seem pretty lax on knives, this is why I'm confused... Is this a straight up federal, nationwide law?
I'm halfway done and soon hope to be the proud owner of an auto :P
(Kidding, obviously)
I have no need for an auto, nor would I ever want one. They just don't attract me at all, even if I only had one arm.
- Simple Man
- Member
- Posts: 2036
- Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 12:00 pm
- Location: Kentucky
The most civil thing to do would be contact your congressman, if it bothers you that much, and talk with him. I have to admit the Kershaw speed safe knives seem like the same thing to me, just executed differently.I can open pretty much all my spydies as fast or faster than most autos or "assisted opening" knives by flicking them open with my thumb. I can do this with one arm too.
V8R
Opinions are like belly buttons most people have one:p
Opinions are like belly buttons most people have one:p
I edc an auto bench made every day, In oregon if you can see over the counter you can buy an auto and carry away. BM's are made in oregon so this may be part of the reason its leagle.
So does this mean that if I leave Oregon with my auto in my pocked there is a 99% chance I am breaking the law? Does it help or matter that I am a Marine?
I don't see the big deal with auto's, I can deploy my endura or axis lock BM just as fast if not faster.
So does this mean that if I leave Oregon with my auto in my pocked there is a 99% chance I am breaking the law? Does it help or matter that I am a Marine?
I don't see the big deal with auto's, I can deploy my endura or axis lock BM just as fast if not faster.
AD military can only carry/use Auto's on installation, in the performance of their duties, or while deloyed...in my experience. I was issued an Benchmade Auto a couple years ago and only actually carried it when I first got it. Now it sits in a drawer as it is just not as useful as some other blades.
Your friends are important to your survival...they give the enemy someone else to shoot at.
Your State AG is the one to answer that, as the decision falls between the Mil/Public Service ruling and the ADA(Americans with Disabilities Act), which mandates that persons unable to utilize tools requiring two hands may use "enabled" tools. If the hiring agency, through State AG, says that you may use autos in the performance of duty, the Fed can get packed. They(Fed agents) could "impound" you knife, but you could not be charged, as you were acting in accordance with State law as a representative of the State (even if you are "private" EMS, as you are working Public Service). IANAL, but this was the direction received from two seperate State EMS Directors.JBE wrote:Unfortunately, being an EMT does not allow you to legally purchase/own said autos according to Federal law. I was unsure myself, but if you read the Federal laws regarding autos we are not included as any group that is allowed to own or purchase these types of knives. I'm hoping that someday someone will actually be able to give me a definitive answer one way or the other because at one time some dealers made these knives available to firefighters and medics as well.