Spyderco Forums

Was on at BladeForums and I wanted to bring this here, to see if anyone agreed. I have a Millie in s60v, which was called CPM440v when the knife was made. It's a great knife, don't get me wrong, but I've always felt it could be so much better.

For me the Millie would be such a winner with only two design changes - if the front of the handle had the same "drop" as the back end, so you had a little protection against sliding forward on the blade; and if the handle didn't have this huge cut out so that any firm grip + twist to the right will release the liner lock. It's not like it's hard to close a knife without that huge cutout, like a Pro Hunter, or Lone Wolf T2, for instance; it just makes for a far less reliable lock.

With those two changes, this would be one of the best factory knives ever. Very light weight with great reach and an excellent blade, in both shape and grind.

I would prefer only two refinements over the Miltary.

1. change the liner lock into compression lock
2. change the plastic spacer into a g-10 one.

I often have my own notions of what would make certain Spydercos "better". Must admit though, when I spend some time talking with Sal about a given model, and learn the amount of thought that went into its design, I realize there was a good reason for every design decision. I'd almost be willing to bet that neither the Pro Hunter or T2 are as easy to close with heavy gloves on as the Military.

dRider wrote:.....and if the handle didn't have this huge cut out so that any firm grip + twist to the right will release the liner lock....

Have you ever had this happen? I ask because I have average sized hands and have never had a Millie unlock on me when I didn't want it to.

Bruceter

Bruceter wrote:Have you ever had this happen? I ask because I have average sized hands and have never had a Millie unlock on me when I didn't want it to.

Bruceter

Not in the field. I test every knife I have for lock strength and how it holds up to moderate torsion. I replicate essentially what would happen if you were sharpening a good sized stick with the knife in your right hand and the stick in your left, and twisted a little as you made your cut. My hand pushed the liner over and the lock released. I'm only 5'10" but have fairly big hands for my size. Maybe it's just my particular hards? Anyway, I only use the Millie for food, light cutting, that sort of thing. Lock release really worries me. Manix gets the heavy jobs. :D

BTW, I did have a knife failure maybe 20 years ago doing the exact same thing on a real stick - Gerber Bolt Action folder. The lock held fine - the blade went "ping!" and a half circle of blade popped off.

So far, the only major factory knife I've had with a lock failure from direct hand force with no torsion was a Benchmade Eclipse (ironically, it had a spyderhole). That soured me on lockbacks for a long time, till I came across the Chinook III and the Manix.

I've got all models of the millie except the very first ATS34 version. The design has evolved since it's release into an even better knife than it started.

I'm pretty much satisfied with the knife the way it is. I've never had a lock problem on any of them. I'll go further and say that the knife, especially in the BG42 and S90V releases are about as good a production knife as there is available anywhere near their price range.

I consider it a modern classic and a design that should be in the collection of any real knife knut.

As Deacon stated a lot of time and work has been put into the design to make it what it is. The extra choices that are given to those with a preference for very high end steels other than S30V are icing on the cake to me, and have been a delight along with their slight variations in handles, CF textures, plus G10 including alternate colors. Each a unique personality.

The liner lock design has often been described as probably the reference standard for liner locks.

The heat treats are consistant, and well designed to bring out the strengths of the individual steels and are very appropriate IMO, for the knifes intended uses.

It will likely evolve further but it is currently a reliable design that has earned my trust.

BTW, my favorite is the BG42 model, followed by the S90V version. The same high quality in both, but with quite distinct personality differences. Joe

I do like the millie ergos and overall design. I just always fall short of purchasing, due to the liner lock. I know that any lock can fail, but it just seems that I will be in the minority to hit that liner than most others. Eventually, I may get one and have STR change the lock.

It is still a wonderful knife and a classic design. Cheers to all of you happy millie owners!

In the latest issue of Knives Magazine, the Military was named one of the Top 5 Tactical knives. I believe this was the mag, it just came out. The Police and Endura 4 were also mentioned as being in the top 10. Way to go Spyderco! :D


Knives Illustrated or Tactical Knives.
The Embassy was on the cover of the magazine. I may be wrong. I read quite a few at Barnes & Noble yesterday. :rolleyes:

The magazine was Knives Illustrated with the Embassy on the cover. I went back to B&N to check today. :)

The top 5 Tactical Production folders. The Military was one of 'em! The top ten rankings included the Endura 4 and Police. 3 of the 10 were Spyderco! Yeah! :D

I started off with a D2 millie and now own 2 BG-42 CF millies as well. The millie is one of the best engineered and constructed knives that I have ever seen. The lock is very secure and the millie carries like a knife half it's size. I EDC the millie and it performs 90% of what I use a knife for, with great effectiveness.

As far as the liner lock is concerned, perhaps if you took a cheater bar to it, you might be able to torque the handle enough to release the lock. However, short of that, I have serious doubts that a lock failure would occur.

Buy the way.

Does any of you experienced Military liner wear ?

I know this problem is well common in titanium liners, how's with the steel ones ?

Vince_PL wrote:Buy the way.

Does any of you experienced Military liner wear ?

I know this problem is well common in titanium liners, how's with the steel ones ?

I have lost track of the number open/close cycles on my EDC millie, but it must be close to a thousand by now. (I play a lot.) The liner lock is still at the same place on the tang as it was from new. As the tang and liner lock are radius ground and more than likely differentially hardened, I would expect little wear at the contact points.

My oldest millie is an old 440V/S60V model that has been cared for but used like a millie should be. To me that means no prying, or torquing too much like a screwdriver would be turning.

The liner lock has self adjusted for wear and is still easily within limits for what I'd accept for a NIB millie. I lube with miltec 1, keep it clean, but use it as the slicing machine it's designed to be.

Next would be a BG42 model with hours carried and it seems brand new except for the sharpening wear and scratches on the blade. The liner locks on all of them are in great shape in fact. Joe

I just wanted to add...

I really do like the knife very much. I've never had a formal lock failure with it - what I described was the torque of my hand on the handle operating the liner and releasing it when my hand torqued counterclockwise on the handle.

I found these quote from Sal which do explain the design reasons for the two issues I had with the knife: "Being able to easily close the knife after hard user with gloves on was a major consideration. Any of you that have had a folder lock open and not be able to close it? It's like a chain saw that won't stop . . . The Military Model was not designed as a fighting knife, nor was it designed for suit and tie carry. It was designed to be the most dependable cutting tool accessory a soldier might need while in the ‘bush.’ "

It's funny, I bought the knife before I knew much about steels and I assumed the "440" meant it was in the old 440c type steel family... and I wondered why it seemed so much harder to sharpen than my other knives. Now I know that CPM440v is S60V and no wonder that sucker is harder to sharpen! Something like 8 times the wear resistance of D2. http://www.crucibleservice.com/datash/dsS60v4b.pdf

You know, I love D2 for knife blades. Maybe what I need is a D2 Millie.

Are carbon fiber scales as grippy as G-10?

dRider wrote:Are carbon fiber scales as grippy as G-10?

They tear your pants apart even faster. Very secure grip. Not to mention the Military is one of the only models to actually take advantage of the extra rigidity of carbon fiber, you can definitely tell there is a little more flex to the G-10 version.
Actually, the G-10 version flexes a lot more, the CF version barely flexes at all.

As far as the liner lock is concerned, perhaps if you took a cheater bar to it, you might be able to torque the handle enough to release the lock. However, short of that, I have serious doubts that a lock failure would occur.
__________________

....yeah....I use the Millie hard in outdoor applications, and the lock holds solid no matter how I grip it, twisting and torquing. I think dicussion on the Military's liner lock as a point of "weakness" is a non-starter. I would like a tip up Military....but I understand why it was designed tip down and have adapted to it. Incidentally, the handle on the Military is design genius.
It's flat out a great knife.

- regards

dRider wrote:You know, I love D2 for knife blades. Maybe what I need is a D2 Millie.

Are carbon fiber scales as grippy as G-10?

The CPM D2 Milli actually has foliage green G-10 scales. If you can find one, definitely get it!

I don't have any experience with regular D2, but others say the CPM D2 is more corrosion resistant. It has a finer grain, takes a wicked sharp edge, and holds it for a long time.

catamount wrote:The CPM D2 Milli actually has foliage green G-10 scales. If you can find one, definitely get it!

I have a CPM D2 Military coming my way! :) It'll be my first D2 and FG G10 Spydie. Should be in today's mail. Should I be excited? :p

amen74 wrote:I have a CPM D2 Military coming my way! :) It'll be my first D2 and FG G10 Spydie. Should be in today's mail. Should I be excited? :p

Be excited, Aaron! Be very excited! You are going to love it.

only needs one thing: TIP UP (or changeable clip positions). it's an awesome knife!