Reflections on Restricted Items

[ClockWork]

I dont think theres a cop out there that will hassle you because of a tiny little knife if you flash a NREMT card. Be it B I or P...

... EMS personnel "Help" people, not stab them. And cops know that EMS people can get shot, stabbed, kick, HIV-ed, and baseball batted just as much as they can....

Heck... Even if we were to stab someone. The next thing we'd do is probly a **** Initial assessment, then elevate and pressure. :confused:



And dont forget the most important statement of all...

*Edited - TazKristi - Inappropriate for our Forum.

-Clock

[Agent Starling]

Secondly why even have this section on the forum, because It really isn't needed imo. Many of us aren't allowed to own the automatics or balisongs and those that can are Law Enforcement and Military and I doubt many of them will be discussing thiese knives over here.

Just remove the section all together, because It clearly would not be beneficial.

I've been wondering the same thing also. In fact, I've been thinking, why have this section at all, if only a small subset of this forum can own these knives? Or, in the alternative, why not make this forum a closed forum, where only that certain subset of people who can legally own these knives can participate...that way the rest of us don't have to look at and read about knives which we will never be able to possess...? Just a thought.

Agent Starling

[ClockWork]

I've been wondering the same thing also. In fact, I've been thinking, why have this section at all, if only a small subset of this forum can own these knives? Or, in the alternative, why not make this forum a closed forum, where only that certain subset of people who can legally own these knives can participate...that way the rest of us don't have to look at and read about knives which we will never be able to possess...? Just a thought.

Agent Starling

Now that America!!!!

[ClockWork]

I've been wondering the same thing also. In fact, I've been thinking, why have this section at all, if only a small subset of this forum can own these knives? Or, in the alternative, why not make this forum a closed forum, where only that certain subset of people who can legally own these knives can participate...that way the rest of us don't have to look at and read about knives which we will never be able to possess...? Just a thought.

Agent Starling

Now thats America!!!!!


mmm.... oh wonderful innerweb censorship!! Love it!!!

And nobody forget my wonderful buddy the Patriot act. (If there telling us that there doin that stuff.... Think about what there NOT telling us that there doing!!?)(You have to wonder? Who's reading these post?)

[VGM'S KNIVES]

I have been collecting knives for around ten years. My first knife was givin to me on my 9th birthday. I have had some type of knife on me ever sense. I really think its time for all of us knife lovers to speak up about the way the laws are. The Government always wants more control over the people as bridges are falling down all around us. :mad: The tactical knife is becoming more and more popular to the collectors along with switchblades. I live in minnesota where you can own any lengh knife or swithblade, but to carry is a crime. I dont spend 950.00 on a William Henry to use as a EDC. :) I have read storys that New York is arresting people for the assisted opening knives? If we dont all stick together and voice our opinions, who knows what the Government will take away from us next.Thanks for the great info and post. :)

[sal]

I think that civil, intelligent discussion is a good thing. Socrates is one of my mentors. Dialectic discussion often uncovers greater meaning and understanding.

It's a public forum on knife items that are "restricted". Where they are restricted? How, why, are all very difficult questions to get intelligent, meaningful response to.

Speaking out , protesting, or *****ing is not as meaningful as exploring, questioning, sharing and understanding.

sal

[JBE]

I dont think theres a cop out there that will hassle you because of a tiny little knife if you flash a NREMT card. Be it B I or P...

... EMS personnel "Help" people, not stab them. And cops know that EMS people can get shot, stabbed, kick, HIV-ed, and baseball batted just as much as they can....

Heck... Even if we were to stab someone. The next thing we'd do is probly a **** Initial assessment, then elevate and pressure. :confused: -Clock

I agree 100% and there's not an LEO around here that would "hassle" me for having it. However, if I ever have to use that knife in a life-or-death situation to protect myself, I want to make sure it's legal for me to own that knife before I put in my pocket. I don't want that dark cloud hanging over me in court. It's a shame because the Embassy would be an incredible tool to have in my line of work.

I'm just glad I live in a state where there's no restriction on folder length...hence, I carry a Military.

[KaliGman]

...
And dont forget the most important statement of all...

* Edited- TazKristi - Inappropriate for our Forum.

-Clock

The Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco Firearms and Explosives (BATFE) had nothing whatsoever to do with charges against Spyderco. Does Spyderco trade in tobacco, firearms, alcohol or explosives? The applicable agency was Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE), which had jurisdiction due to imported parts used to make balisongs and the sale of these knives in interstate commerce.

As for reform of laws and rules, I am all for it. There are some things that need changing. As a firearms owner and aficionado, there are many rules and laws regarding ownership of firearms that I would like to see changed. As for federal law enforcement officers puposely losing reports, lying, or falsifying evidence, I have never seen it and if I had, the officers would be doing time. I am sure there are bad apples in every law enforcement agency, just as there are in every other career, including EMTs. When you use such a broad brush and paint an entire agency as corrupt, you insult the sacrifices, hard work, and integrity of many good people who are working in that agency and there is also "spillage" over to the reputation of all federal agents and law enforcement in general. I've known too many people who went into law enforcement to help people, who have fought and bled doing that, and who were fine upstanding human beings to let that pass without comment. You need to ratchet it down a couple of notches.

[ClockWork]

I'm sure there are good people in the ATF. But the ATF isnt one person or just the 10,000+ good officers in the ATF. Its a organization. And the Organization is corrupt.
Sometimes generalization is the best way to describe it.

[TazKristi]

I'm sure there are good people in the ATF. But the ATF isnt one person or just the 10,000+ good officers in the ATF. Its a organization. And the Organization is corrupt.
Sometimes generalization is the best way to describe it.

Perhaps this post from Sal needs to be highlighted.

I think that civil, intelligent discussion is a good thing. Socrates is one of my mentors. Dialectic discussion often uncovers greater meaning and understanding.

It's a public forum on knife items that are "restricted". Where they are restricted? How, why, are all very difficult questions to get intelligent, meaningful response to.

Speaking out , protesting, or *****ing is not as meaningful as exploring, questioning, sharing and understanding.

sal

[rlw1979777]

I have only a few comments on this issue.

I find it demoralizing that a good man and company as of Spyderco was hassled and demeaned because of this issue. I do understand the United States government ban on this issue, but do quietly protest its implementation.

I have come to realize that any knife, or item bought or sold can be used illegally, and in turn should stay that way. What I find insulting is the United States Government again deciding for me, what is right or wrong when it comes to the right to bear arms. As it has already been stated, if you are a law abiding citizen, you can own and possess firearms. Although for some illogical reason Spyderco was fined for making yet another great product. Any knife in my opinion can be used with inertia, or gravity to become a weapon. Amazingly, a Baseball bat or a sock full of pennies works under this same premise. I just find it sad, that this issue was taken out on a respectful company and again not on those that use items in ways that break the law.

I do understand why Sal and his company are very weary on this sensitive issue. Do not get me wrong. I follow the law, but that does not mean that I agree with its interpretation , or how it’s used against our constitutional rights. I believe our founding fathers would be disappointed in these small infractions that chip away at our personal freedoms. I see that everything we have fought and died for is slowly being taken away. We the people, the Americans, are not the ones that break the law. We respect it. Yet it is scary to believe that this type of infringement is described as freedom. What happened to people actually being held for their own actions. If you do something illegally with any type of weapon, it’s not the weapons fault, it’s the personal actions that should be held accountable. A car can be used to break the law, in many aspects, from not using a blinker correctly, to speeding, but Ford and Chevrolet are not being sued for these minor infractions. Cars are not being outlawed. For that would be absurd. To me I do not see the difference. Actually maybe I do. For our government and its ideals on how to live our lives, it’s their ultimate duty to figure out which things are acceptable and which ones aren’t. I am just having a hard time relating this to what is considered personal freedom in the greatest country on earth.

Thank you KaliGman for at least showing us this information. Though that doesn’t make it any less disturbing.

[smcfalls13]

I'm likely the last person you guys would expect to say this, but restricting balisongs/automatics may end up being better in the long run, at least for me

It'll force me to make my own Balisongs :cool:

Just gotta look on the bright side of everything :p

Less money spent on balis means more money to make my own. :p

[Appler]

Wow. I'm amazed at how well the idea of a certain class of citizens being exempt from laws the rest of us must follow sits with everyone.

[Jakemug]

Wow. I'm amazed at how well the idea of a certain class of citizens being exempt from laws the rest of us must follow sits with everyone.

Not everyone. :cool:


We regular law-abiding-citizen-folk with no criminal record sometimes don't understand fancy federal law and it needs to be explained to us so we don't go out and do something crazy like try to add an auto or bali to our collection of knives that we've been building since we were 7 years old and end up in federal prison.

I'm glad I CAN'T own any of these highly specialized knives in question. Gosh, I wouldn't know what to do with one if it were given to me! All that weird flippin' and button pushin!

I am enjoying this new forum though and reading about all the fantasy knives out there that most of us can't even sniff without the feds swooping in.

[Appler]

Yeah, I know. I'm not properly trained and couldn't possibly control all of the extra slaughter-potential that spring loading and gravity/inertia deployment affords. Oh, wait...there ISN'T anymore firepower and no one else is properly trained, either (because there is, of course, nothing to train). I forgot.

So, unlike in the more obvious cases of, say, rocket propelled grenades, anything less than blanket illegality in this instance smells suspiciously like a reward.

[Stevie Ray]

Good comments above. Personally, the restrictions on balisongs have puzzled me in the base case. It takes lots of practice and some level of coordination to open a balisong with speed. I've never understood why they get categorized with automatic knives in some states. :confused:

[Ian UK]

They used to be legal over here in the UK I remember being able to buy them but cant remember when and why they were banned.

Some "5h1*" will of done something wrong which we are all paying for now! :mad:

Once again I cant see how a bali or auto is anymore dangerous its the user thats the problem, especially over here in the city's where the gangs at present are just stabbing one another! :confused:

Personally I think let them get on with it, but we are surrounded by do-gooders and soft politicians that give in to every sob story. :mad:

Bali's are gone, Samurai swords were banned last month, air guns now need to be bought in person and all the shops are miles away, where it will end I dont know, the yobs now cary screwdrivers so if caught just say they have been doing a bit of D.I.Y. for their gran or something. :mad:

Its us serious collectors that suffer!

[ClockWork]

Good comments above. Personally, the restrictions on balisongs have puzzled me in the base case. It takes lots of practice and some level of coordination to open a balisong with speed. I've never understood why they get categorized with automatic knives in some states. :confused:

Yeah ive never understood that either. I've toyed with Balis for years now, and I am no were near the level that some of the kids on YouTube are.
And even then, I think those guys would take longer to retrieve there bali from there pocket and open, than any of us with a Spyderco.

And yes, I've seen that huge fat kid do his Bali opening speed comparisons video. But I think thats kinda a Load of BS, because any movement or any little thing throws off a Bali opening.

Balis are just not that convenient or useful. I see them much more of a Toy than an actual useful knife. :confused:

Also: I wouldn't necessarily say that a Auto is "Faster" than a Manuel. Yes, in all literal sense it is faster opening. IDK about you, But it takes about the same time to pull and open a Auto, then to Pull and open a manual. I will say that with my BM 5000s, and Boker AK74 that I feel the opening is more "reliable" and theres less of a chance of me dicking it up... Does that make sence? However the MT UT6 is (I feel) easier to mess up the opening... or if my hands are sweaty or tired or something its hard to push the trigger right.

So... take that as you want,

Bottom Line; You can stab some one with a Manuel or Auto just the same. Heck, you can stab someone with a screwdriver.
Restricting one isnt going to make the people that are stabbing people; Stop stabbing people.


IDK about you, But I have never stabbed anyone, Nor do I wish too...

-Clock

[The Deacon]

Wow. I'm amazed at how well the idea of a certain class of citizens being exempt from laws the rest of us must follow sits with everyone.

Or we're just realistic enough to know that, even if it were just as illegal for them as it is for us, it would make no difference. If there's any place in this country, or on this earth for that matter, where "the boys and girls blue" routinely enforce nuisance ordinances against their brethren, I've yet to hear of it.

I severely doubt any here would think worse of someone who privately engages in civil disobedience where these particular laws are concerned. I know I would not. But, at the same time, I can understand Spyderco's decision to make these knives and have respect for their concern that members openly bragging about such actions, giving "how to evade the law" advice to others, or asking for such advice, on "company property" might have unfavorable repercussions for both the "protester" and for the company.

[Jakemug]

But, at the same time, I can understand Spyderco's decision to make these knives and have respect for their concern that members openly bragging about such actions, giving "how to evade the law" advice to others, or asking for such advice, on "company property" might have unfavorable repercussions for both the "protester" and for the company.

Agreed Deac, Spyderco's just followin' the rules/laws that exist. Probably not the place for us common folk to discuss how ridiculous they may be. I'll just stay away from this new forum, since I can't "legally" own or contribute about any of the products in it. Much the same way I simply don't watch a television station or listen to radio I don't care for instead of *****ing about it.

To those whom the gov't has deemed worthy of purchasing and carrying the products in question, enjoy the new section! Farewell!